Had the car running good, at least in the garage. Timing was good, checked with a vacuum guage (17), changed the oil, and took it for a ride. Got a mile down the road and she gradually slowed down and lost all power. Didn't cut off abruptly, justify slowed way down and chugged along slowly until she quietly shut off. By this time, had already turned around toward the house. Stranded a half mile from home and pushed her back.
Before I pushed her back, I opened the hood and she looked flooded. I waited a few minutes and tried to start and she would not.
Since getting her back home, she still will not start. In fact, she now pops through the carburetor when cranking, but she won't start. I pulled the plugs and they look good, except for #3. Carbon/dirty. Cleaned all plugs and still won't start.
Trying to figure out what happened between running great in the garage and when she shut down a mile from the house. Help!
Sounds like the timing shifted.
Chet, I hear you, but I just don't see how that could have happened. Everything had been running fine prior to, and I only drove up the road between 30-35mph.
I'm wondering if it got too much gas and flooded causing the same symptoms, loading up and slowly shutting down. When I pulled over, the carb was definitely wet with gas so much that it was also seeping out between the carb and intake.
My 2 cents. Trying the easy things first, take the carb off, dis-assemble completely and fluid flush all passages. With low air pressure (30 psi max) blow out all passages and internal parts. On a clean white cloth re-assemble the carb and give her a try. One piece of sand or dirt will flood the carb to the point of not running. An inline fuel filter or a close eye on the glass filter bowl will save a lot of problems like you describe. Good luck, hope it goes well. Happy Motoring - Rich
Quote from: racertb on October 05, 2014, 12:11:22 AM
I'm wondering if it got too much gas and flooded causing the same symptoms, loading up and slowly shutting down. When I pulled over, the carb was definitely wet with gas so much that it was also seeping out between the carb and intake.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Frustrating I know, especially if you just wanted to go for a little drive.
Chet...
Timing could be changing because of a worn cam gear. They are made of Bakelite. after 80 are so year this stuff gets soft in oil and will deteriorate.
The gas flooding may be a red herring. These are 'upside down' carbs and the only way gas can be drawn up to the manifiold is by induction. I suspect this is only unfired gas when the ignition quit. As the others are saying I think you're back to the firing order being out. I don't think you ever found the original problem. The main cam drive gear is indeed Bakelite and they were know to strip. They have a metal keyed sleeve that fits inside the Bakelite and they were know to start to slip around inside the Bakelite. They drive both the camshaft anf the distributor and the oil pump. They had a big load on them. My 2 cents.
Ted,
Sorry to hear of your problem. As a broken record, my first suspect is always the carb. If there is "crud" on the needle valve and won't seal, flooding will result if there is a gravity reservoir of fuel feeding the carb. This applies to my operating vac tank and the electric pump I believe you use. This is easy to check without removing carb. The float could also have developed a leak. Check the position of your idle adjustment screw for proper position. Mine moved out this summer resulting in loss of power, but it would idle and run.
Check your manual for solutions to "popping back through carburetor."
Good luck,
frank
I appreciate all the thoughts and replies; my gut tells me it's the carb and a stuck or float filled with gas. I think and it probably wouldn't hurt to start with the carb. I do use an electric pump and did disconnect it when I tried to start again in the garage so it wouldn't keep pushing up fuel. There is an inline filter before the pump.
On the cam and Bakelite, I would think that if that is the case, I wouldn't be able to get in time. Is it possible that I can get it in time in the garage, run the motor at various speeds, and then go out when driving? I would think the car would have shut off totally as it did before. This seems different this time, but who knows.
My 3 cents this time. Sounds like a check of the timing is needed first. Remove. Spark plugs---- bring #1 (or #4 on the 4 cyl) up on compression stroke with thumb over plug hole ---- remove distributor cap and see if rotor is in line with #1 wire on dist cap. If the rotor is correct, your timing gears and distributor should be OK. If not the distributor or timing gear should be suspect. If both check out, check the carb float for a leak, inspect that the needle and seat is working sealing off, and carb flange gasket is making a good seal and mounting bolts snug. It will be interesting to find the fix.
Just a thought as you are using an electric fuel pump. Have you checked what the fuel pressure is while driving? Anything over 4 or 5 psi can push gas past the needle and seat and cause a flooding condition. It may need a low pressure fuel regulator. The standard over the counter regulators dont go down that low. Good luck with your adventure. Happy Motoring! Rich
Thanks, Rich. I will check the timing as you described. I think I've become an expert on static timing. I will let you know what I find out; I assume if the timing went out, there is something internally wrong. Perhaps the Bakelite/Cam gear as described above. I may be wrong, but I would think the car would just shut down if the timing went out (?)
Also, I've had the distributor out before and everything looked in good shape, gear, etc...I assume internally it was ok.
One thing for sure is that the carb flooded bad, so was this the result of:
A) the timing went out (slipped and retarded) as described in another reply and I flooded the car out by pushing on the gas trying to gain speed to pull off the road, thus flooding the carb? Or,
B) the timing did not go out (since the car continued to run) and it was a carb flooding issue that just brought the car to a halt? I don't know, but I will dig into it some more this weekend.
Again, thanks to ALL for the replies, suggestions and words of wisdom. I'm on a mission to get this old gal back on the road again. I just may need everyone's advice!
Ted
Try making one fix at a time so you can pinpoint the fix when you find it, but to the point. Something else came to mind. Is the ignition coil an old one? If so coils are known to breakdown after running for a while when they heat up. Try temporarily installing a new or modern coil for a test run. For the test you can tape the test coil to the original and hook up the wires. Just another idea to try. --- Rich.
Quote from: racertb on October 08, 2014, 04:35:02 PM
Or,
B) the timing did not go out (since the car continued to run) and it was a carb flooding issue that just brought the car to a halt? I don't know, but I will dig into it some more this weekend.
Ted
Ted,
Just a thought.., If the timing was right on and everything else was OK I would think a carburetor providing too much gas would cause excess acceleration not a loss of power and a slow descent to a halt. I think your timing shifted for some reason or some electrical fault. If you get it running again paint on a timing mark that can be easily checked. I had a 74 Pinto that did what you described and it was just a loose screw slipping the point gap. The car's power slowly declined driving from NY to Vermont in a snow storm. It got so bad that we had trouble climbing hills. Timing and compression check would be my first moves.
Good luck, Chet...
Rich/Chet:
I will go with the process of elimination method by doing one thing at a time. I will start with the static timing first and see where the rotor is pointing in relation to #1 wire on the cap. I know the distributor itself didn't move, as its in the same position as I had installed it before when it was running (the condenser is facing out, in line with the motor). As Rich mentioned, if the rotor is in another position other than pointing at/next to #1, I assume it may be the cam gear as mentioned in another post by Old Man. I will also check the point gap as well. The points, plugs, cap, rotor and wires are new. Coil may be the original. I would think if the coil was the problem, the car would have shut off.
I believe the compression is good; when running/idling, the vacuum is fairly steady around 17 hg. On another note, the plugs looked good, except for #3 which looked carbon fouled.
I'm not going to do anything to the carb until I verify what's happening with the timing, etc. I will let you all what I find before I move on to the carb. If all of the above seems to check out ok, I will have to assume that the carb is the issue.
Thanks again,
Ted
Why I brought up the cam gear was shortly after I got my car the gear stripped while driving. Didn't lose power like yours, just quit running and while trying to crank it got popping from the carb. Years ago I was rebuilding a 350 Cummins that had stuck a few valves in the top of a piston. Could not get it timed. Found out through trial and error the cam had broken in the gear. Every other rotation the timing would change.
Sorry Doug, you did initially mention the gear. I'm going to look at it this weekend and let you all know what I find out.
Well, I checked the timing and the rotor was pointed where it was supposed to be. I static timed again and rotor was correct, so I believe the timing did not shift. The car is wanting to start, will run rough for a few seconds, but looks like it's flooding out.
I'm going to disassemble the carb and check to see if the float has a hole in it and clean everything up. I had to repair it about 12 years ago.
Does anyone know where I can get a rebuild kit? I can get the same basic kit I used back then for about $30. Any other ideas?
try. www.thecarburetorshop.com
They are located in Eldon, missouri. And have specialized in carbs and carb kits for a long time.
Thanks...I called them and they wanted $60 for the kit so I called Daytona Parts in New Smyrna Beach, FL where I ordered a kit years ago when I rebuilt the carb. The kit was $30 and a NEW brass float was $40, so I got one of those too. Should have it here in a few days.