28Q29U Plymouth Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SteveG on February 26, 2014, 01:15:36 PM

Title: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on February 26, 2014, 01:15:36 PM
I am working on installing a new to on my '28 business coupe. I want to knew how the top is secured around the edges.

Will anyone be so kind as to post a few close up pics of the front, back and sides showing how the cloth top is secured?

It would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 03, 2014, 10:40:43 AM
The top on my '29 coupe was tacked to the wood framing all the way around.  The finish trim strip around the perimeter was also tacked using small round-headed tacks about 3/8 to 1/2 inch long.  I can't send a picture 'cause the top is off now.  But you might want to look at a previous post of mine on page 4 of this General Discussion forum.  It's titled "I need some advise..."; top wood repair discussion starts on about page 6 of that post.  I'll check my picture file to see if I have a photo of the original fabric top.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: Crazydave on March 03, 2014, 12:22:13 PM
I'll try and take some for you this week. I have the original top on my 29.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 03, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
Thank you so much for your post!

I'm thinking the cover goes under the gutters, above the door. It looks like an elongated U shaped metal strap secures the back. I am not sure how the front is held down.

Your pics will be invaluable to me. Thanx for taking the time and effort. The chances of you doing the same job, at the same time is amazing.

I look forward to your next post.

SteveG

Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 03, 2014, 02:07:56 PM
I found your later post and am now studying it now. I made some of the same parts as you. I am now repairing or replacing  the thin struts across the top. I will send some pics in a couple of days when I'm ready to attach the top.

Thank you
SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 03, 2014, 08:03:02 PM
Thanx Dave.

I look forward to seeing your pics of your top. Will be a BIG help!

SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on March 04, 2014, 06:50:00 AM

Just to let you guys know I am following these posts also since I will be doing this at some point soon.  I am very interested in the body construction over the doors.  I don't think there is much left of mine.  Pictures are a big help especially for some of us with missing parts.

Tks Chet...
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: Old Man on March 04, 2014, 10:21:24 AM
My 2 cents: I remember the '28s and '29s had a wood chine all the way around the roof and it rotted from water ingress and I filled it out with body fill. I remember the rain gutter was the last thing tacked  on the sides. The front roofing cloth was tacked up to the wood overhang and the metal cadet visor was then screwed in place. I put lots of black RTV silicone rubber in at the last edge of the roof cloth all around to stop water getting in now. Especially under the visor as the rain would be driven into the cracks when driving down the road. (Just wiping off the excess will make the RTV disappear.)I don't believe any caulking was put in any place by Chrysler. That and the sun killing the top material was the reason for the water ingress.   
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 04, 2014, 12:24:35 PM
SteveG:  I found the pics of my fabric top prior to removal.  It was not the original top but was secured around the perimeter in the same manner as the original.  I am sending 2 pics, one of the left front corner above the A pillar, and the other is the left rear corner above and behind the door.  I have about 12 more pictures but they are large format (3MB) so if you want to see those too I can send them to your email.  If others here want to see them I will just go ahead and reduce their size and post them here.  Let me know.

Chet:  I still have the wood exposed on my coupe so if you need more pictures let me know what parts you want to see.  You probably remember that I posted quite a few pics of the top wood in the thread I mentioned above ("I need some advise") (spelling error mine).  It's now on page 4 of the General Discussion.

Old Man:  You remember right.  :)
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on March 04, 2014, 07:54:49 PM
Quote from: kimmc on March 04, 2014, 12:24:35 PM
Chet:  I still have the wood exposed on my coupe so if you need more pictures let me know what parts you want to see.  You probably remember that I posted quite a few pics of the top wood in the thread I mentioned above ("I need some advise") (spelling error mine).  It's now on page 4 of the General Discussion.

Old Man:  You remember right.  :)

Kim, 

Many thanks, yes I know the thread very well and appreciate all the pictures you posted.  I didn't suspect that there was this wood trim.  In the picture below showing the side piece it looks like a quarter round wood molding.  Is there any way to get a tracing of the molding's contour.  Also the pieces that trim the back are they also this same type of wood trim ?  If so is it one continues piece or is it a number of pieces glued together.  What type of wood do you suspect it is ?

Old Man,

Great catch I would have never suspected a wood trim.  This actually explains a lot.  Any ideas on how it was originally finished ?  Painted black I suspect ?  In your post you also said " I remember the rain gutter was the last thing tacked  on the sides"  What did the rain gutter look like.  Is Kim's photo accurate or was his top replaced at some point in the past ?

SteveG, 

Thanks for starting the thread.  I have been playing around with this car for almost ten years and I am always learning something new about it.  The more I learn the more things on the list of stuff to fix some day.

Chet...

Is there any wood trim under the piece above the windshield ?

Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Chet:  Hi Chet.  You mention "a picture below"... I didn't get a picture or are you referring to an earlier picture.  All the wood is oak.  The perimeter of the top of the cab is all wood framing beneath the sheet metal.  There is so much wood that if you removed all the sheet metal, there would still be a wood structure remaining that outlines the shape of the car!  The top perimeter framing is many pieces glued and screwed together.  I had to do a lot of fabrication and fitting to reproduce the repair parts I made.  I can try to get a cross sectional shape of the side and front main wood pieces but none of these are a consistent cross section from front to back.  But I will do the best I can for you.  It is probably a good thing that all this wood is covered by either the top material or the interior headliner and fabric of the sides.  I am still a little confused by what you are referring to as wood "trim".  The wood framing is not 'trim', but rather a substantial wood support structure.  But maybe I misunderstand what you are referring to.  I'll take some more pictures and try to do some sketches.  My fabric top was not the original, but the original "gutter" metal and metal "half-round" to finish the back edge of the top were retained.  The wood framing had both black paint and plenty of overspray from the original green body paint.  The raw edge of the top fabric was finished with a fabric belt also tacked down and apparent in the photos.  I'm going to post all the pictures I took of the top before I removed it.  It will take about 6 posts I think.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 12:02:36 AM
more top pics... Kim Mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 12:04:32 AM
still more pics....  Kim Mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 12:07:28 AM
more....  Kim Mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 12:09:38 AM
last two.... Kim Mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 12:11:56 AM
try again....
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on March 05, 2014, 07:10:49 AM
Quote from: Old Man on March 04, 2014, 10:21:24 AM
My 2 cents: I remember the '28s and '29s had a wood chine all the way around the roof and it rotted from water ingress and I filled it out with body fill. I remember the rain gutter was the last thing tacked  on the sides.

Kim & Old Man,

I am trying to picture the reference to " a wood chine all the way around the roof ".  I am aware that the structure behind the skins is wood.  I am assuming that Old Man's statement is referring to something on the surface ? or maybe I have that wrong.

Kim, Thanks for all the pictures.  They clarify what the rain gutter looked like.  I don't have this item.  That should be a little challenging to fabricate.  Also the trim on the back is metal.  So is mine but it might not be original.  If you have the rain gutter off, a tracing of the contour would be very helpful for fabrication. 

Example:  see picture below.



Tks,  Chet...
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 09:55:21 AM
Chet:  There was no exposed wood 'trim' on my top.  I believe the wood 'chine' that Old Man refers to is the heavy duty wood framing that surrounds the cab roof perimeter and to which the top fabric is tacked.  All the wood is covered by the top fabric.  As Old Man describes, water can get in along the top edge of the sun visor.  One of my pictures shows the loose fabric along the front edge as a result of wood deterioration in this location.  You will recall all the fill and 'toothpick' repair I did to this wood framing to ready it for a new top.  I will get a picture and cross-section diagram of the rain gutter for you.  mc
Title: Pictures from the 29
Post by: Crazydave on March 05, 2014, 04:41:14 PM
I have about half the roof in tack and the other half falling apart. Took some pictures of the varying state of decay.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02597.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02597.jpg.html)

Passenger side rear corner

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02596.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02596.jpg.html)

Driver side rear corner

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02608.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02608.jpg.html)

Top view of the passenger side rear.
Title: More pictures
Post by: Crazydave on March 05, 2014, 04:44:43 PM
Intact original roof

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02599.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02599.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02598.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02598.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02605.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02605.jpg.html)
Title: Roof Line above windshield
Post by: Crazydave on March 05, 2014, 04:47:41 PM
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02607.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02607.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02603.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02603.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02602.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02602.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02610.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/DSC02610.jpg.html)
Title: Photo Bucket
Post by: Crazydave on March 05, 2014, 05:01:06 PM
FYI

If you click on the photo if should bring you to my photo bucket (free online image hosting website) I have a folder labeled 1929 Plymouth U with about 100 pictures in there. Maybe I have some pictures that are helpful, or if you just want to snoop around it, its open and that's what its for. I will add groups of pictures as slowly start work on this project.

Feel free to ask for certain pictures, I'm happy to help if I can.

Good luck on the resto, I'll be on here looking for answers in the near future.         Dave
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on March 05, 2014, 07:29:40 PM
Hay Dave,

Nice pictures.  Any idea what that metal piece over the driver's side windshield is for.

Chet...
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 09:06:00 PM
Crazy Dave:  Nice pics.  Liked the ones in your bucket too.  Thanks for letting us know about those.  My wood look similar to yours in some spots....dry rot.  I was able to repair much of mine using a recommended product called "Poly All".  It really is great stuff...a polyurethane that will soak into wood and stabilize it.  Check out my description about using it on my top wood under "I need some advise" on page 4 of the general category.  If you are not a skilled wood worker, I recommend you consider using this product where you can rather than tearing out the top wood and milling replacement pieces.  If the wood is just too far gone, then you have no choice of course.  Good luck and keep us posted.  mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 05, 2014, 09:52:25 PM
Chet:  Here's the rain gutter stuff you asked for.  My car is a coupe and yours a sedan so there may be some differenches that you can resolve.  The gutter is 37 inches long and has a 7/8" arc in order to follow the roof line above the door.  There are holes along its length; 1/4" from each end for a screw, then a tack hole 1 1/4" from each end, then another 2 1/4" from each end, then the holes continue at 2" spacing.  Pictures are attached.  Hope this helps.  From Crazy Dave's sedan pics it looks like the rain gutter turns down at the back end.  Good luck with your project.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on March 05, 2014, 10:43:36 PM
Thanks,

This is all great info and the drawing you created is perfecto.  I just hope we didn't highjack Steve's post.  Now all I have to do is find some time to start the work on my car.  Just need to close out some home improvement projects before I can open up this can of worms.

Tks, Chet...
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: Crazydave on March 06, 2014, 09:15:44 AM
Chet- Those metal tabs are around on both the passenger and driver sides as well. They seem to tack those over the seams where they butt the wood together. When I rip that thing apart I'll document where and how many there are.

kimmc- Thanks for the info. My goal this year is to get it running, moving and braking. I'll update my restore thread when I get moving on it again.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 06, 2014, 11:31:13 AM
All these pics and discussions are priceless! I now know how to proceed.

I will post pics and comments this weekend as to my progress.

SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: Old Man on March 07, 2014, 10:20:18 AM
Yes Kim I meant the actual structure of the roof at the sides. This eventually became a steel overlap in later Plymouths. (The roof became a "drop-in" square with the steel sides painted body color.) The photos bring back memories. Some of that "rain gutter" strip is called "Hidem" and is still available on pages 188/189  of Mac's AutoParts of Buffalo. Also all the end tips. Hidem was apparently a brand name and was used by all the manufacturers at the time. And just point it out again,use black RTV under everything to seal the edges of the material. Test screw all your trim in place and them remove it and place a line of RTV along the mating surface and final screw the trim in place. Any that squeezes out can be wiped away with paper towels and you will never see it later. Been there,done that. And keep the roofing material well covered with your choice of spray on water proofing over the years. Just about all of them come with a built in sun block now and the top looks nicer too. 
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 07, 2014, 10:34:58 AM
Old Man:  Your moniker should be 'Mr. Encyclopedia'...thanks for this info.  I will check Mac's catalogue...I need the end pieces...I expect they will have the top material too?  Anyhow, thanks for sharing all that Plymo info stuffed into your noodle...     mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on March 07, 2014, 04:14:42 PM
Old Man,

You hit the nail right on the head.  See attached picture of the Rain Gutter that Mac's AutoParts sells.  And they also have the Hidem strips.

Many, many, thanks,  Chet...

PS... Here is the link to the on-line page: 

http://macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-pickup-rain-gutters-original-type-stamped-steel-1930-31-only-apurg-1/camid/MDA/cp/JS0R3CHL1068037/ (http://macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-pickup-rain-gutters-original-type-stamped-steel-1930-31-only-apurg-1/camid/MDA/cp/JS0R3CHL1068037/)
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 11, 2014, 03:50:42 PM
 
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Here are some pics of the nearly completed roof frame work. I am just about ready to attach the top.

The pics you guys posted were fantastic! Thank you so much.

The car came with a piece of 3/16" foam and some outer material. (see pic)

Looking at all the pics it looks like jute was used for a liner in the old days. I think it would work better then the foam.
What do you think?
Do you know if it is still available?

Any additional info. is, of course appreciated.

Thanx again

SteveG


Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 11, 2014, 03:53:56 PM
Some more.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 11, 2014, 04:02:47 PM
Here's one more.
Many pics but I figured they may help.
If anyone has any questions or knows where I can get some jute, please let me know.
SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 11, 2014, 04:06:50 PM
Whoops!

I screwed up and sent a pic of my wife and young daughter in last post by mistake! Sorry.

SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 12, 2014, 07:47:25 PM
I talked to a resto-guy today and he said the 3/16" foam is better then using jute.
Since he is booked till June he asked me to bring the car in and he would give me tips on the installation.
Will keep you posted on the progress if there is any interest.
Thanks again for the great tips.
SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: kimmc on March 12, 2014, 08:16:46 PM
I would be interested in the tips and your progress.  Thanks.  mc
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on March 12, 2014, 09:33:03 PM
I'm going to see him Friday, and will keep you posted.
Thanx again for your pics.
steveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: plymouth rust on October 09, 2014, 10:30:54 PM
Have you done any more on top/ I would like to how things are coming along.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 01:00:35 PM
I have completed the top and will post pics today or tomorrow.

All the help you guys have provided was priceless!

SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:24:32 PM
Here's the pics of the completed top.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:28:57 PM
I posted 4 pics but only #4 appears. they must be too big.
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:32:37 PM
#01
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:34:31 PM
#03
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:41:00 PM
#05
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:43:49 PM
#6
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:45:07 PM
#7
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
#8
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: SteveG on October 10, 2014, 08:53:35 PM
Please excuse my ignorance in posting pics. At least I got them all on the thread.

The top came out pretty well for the first time and wasn't very difficult.

Amelia is a driver, not show, but she's a great old Plymouth. I drive her at least a couple of times a week and she still puts a big smile on my mug!

If any of you folks have any questions or comments, just let 'er rip.

SteveG
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: chetbrz on October 11, 2014, 08:47:24 AM

Very Nice !! Great Job !!!

I have to do mine and none of the original wood remains.  Many years ago someone replaced it all with a piece of plywood.  Your pictures will be very helpful for my efforts to recreate a somewhat original look and feel to my old car.  I might start on this next year.

Again, Great Job...
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: frankp on October 11, 2014, 01:55:52 PM
StevG,

Well Done!   Great that you are able to drive that often.

frank
Title: Re: '28 Top Reconstruction
Post by: plymouth rust on October 16, 2014, 10:09:24 PM
Thanks for the photos of your cars top. I have a 29 that's missing a lot of parts and was wondering when you were working on, is the latch side door jamb just wood or does it have a metal part on it like the door jamb were hinges are have?