All Suspension Work Completed
The original Build Thread was getting quite long so I decided to start another since this Thread completes most of the structural work and all the suspension restoration. I must admit that new springs all around and repairing the problems with the mismatch shackles makes a big difference. So after a year since I started the restoration the car is finally sitting on it's own four wheels again and in perfect alignment.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_041.jpg)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_042.jpg)
So on to the next chapter. I'll be working on replacing the floor next ?
Chet...
Can anyone confirm my assumptions below.
While waiting for the wire harness I have been doing some clean up work in preparation for the floor installation.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info//1929/images/Build/Floor03.jpg)--(http://www.1948plymouth.info//1929/images/Build/Floor04.jpg)
My understanding of the rear pan's positioning:
According to my current information the pan should sit back approximately 72 and 3/8 inches from the front sill edge to the front edge of the wooden cross member that the pan attaches to. I believe that the front edge of the seat pan sits back roughly 3/8 of an inch from the front face of the wood cross member. The height off the finished floor is 2.5 inches. Also the rear of the pan attaches through the rear triangular body braces. Again my car is a 4dr. sedan.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/PanDiagram01.jpg)
A picture looking down on the front of the rear seat pan would be greatly appreciated.
Can anyone confirm these assumptions ?
Since I plan to rebuild the engine anyway and the wire harness is being created I decided to pull the engine so I can get it in the shop by mid January. This way I can also clean up and paint the engine compartment which will make installing the new wire harness a breeze. Also might be helpful putting in the front toe board.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor01.jpg)
I still need to disconnect the drive shaft and pull the transmission, remove the peddles, and remove the master cylinder. Then I should be able to lower the bell housing and turn the engine enough to clear the steering box. Anyone have any suggestions for clearing the steering box.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor02.jpg)
Tks, Chet...
Chet, if memory serves correctly, you have the right idea. Lower the rear to clear the steering while raising the front end over the frame and bringing forward. You won't have any problems. frank
Thanks Frank, Seems reasonable.
I will say it was much easier removing the drive shaft & transmission without the car floor. It was almost fun. When I first installed those new disks, it was all work under the car. Today it was nice sitting on a cross member and working on the rear axle. I have a feeling that my floor panels are going to become removable.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor04.jpg)
Chet...
The Motor is Out...
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor05.jpg)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor06.jpg)
It appears to me that the Bell Housing was possibly Silver like the Head.
How do you guys feel about having the Bell Housing, The Head, and the intake manifold all the same color silver. The exhaust standard Orange and the Block Flat Black.
It would definitely be an eye catcher...
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor07-01.jpg)
There is a gentleman in New Castle Delaware who has a 29U 4dr Sedan which is an original unmolested car. Will pay him a visit to photograph the wire harness and interior. Yes Original Interior. I'll get the low down on the engine colors. I suspect everything black except the head.
Hello Chet , So your engine is not original paint ,your saying . I do not know about orange manifold ,where did you see that? Also see what Dupli. Color or Rusto. Color matches . The salesman book on my truck with Ply. 4 says head is Gray, not Silver with block black . Was thinking of using a aluminum color hi-temp . But discussion on aaca seems to think water cooling engine surface temp will only be about or below 210*F ,boiling point most paints can easily with standing , excluding manifold .
Quote from: Articifer Tom on December 04, 2017, 08:34:59 PM
Hello Chet , So your engine is not original paint ,your saying . I do not know about orange manifold ,where did you see that? Also see what Dupli. Color or Rusto. Color matches . The salesman book on my truck with Ply. 4 says head is Gray, not Silver with block black . Was thinking of using a aluminum color hi-temp . But discussion on aaca seems to think water cooling engine surface temp will only be about or below 210*F ,boiling point most paints can easily with standing , excluding manifold .
Hi Tom,
Just going off the deep end a bit. Will stay with the stock colors.
Well now Chet. Those circus colors would go nicely with the polka dot interior! Could have some interesting combos in those taxi's, you know. Engine came out easy since you didn't mention issues? frank
Quote from: frankp on December 04, 2017, 09:33:53 PM
Well now Chet. Those circus colors would go nicely with the polka dot interior! Could have some interesting combos in those taxi's, you know. Engine came out easy since you didn't mention issues? frank
Yes engine came out with no problems. Once the Bell Housing cleared the mounting brackets a slight turn to the left and the engine cleared the steering box. No issues. Today I load it into the back of the pickup for the drive north.
About the colors, OK, ok I lost my head. Although it would be entertaining to see 22 clowns running in and out of the car. Very reminiscent of an Air Show I attended recently with my P15. Walked away to get a burger for lunch and found a whole family including three kids jumping up and down on the seats in my 48 Plymouth. Now I lock the doors when I wander away.
Interesting on the colors...my block, bell housing and intake are black, exhaust has no paint on it, and head is silver. Used Rustoleum heat resistant silver BBQ paint for the head I did a couple years ago and has held up well.
The Motor Continued...
I delivered the motor safe and sound to J&M Machine in Southborough, Massachusetts. They keep a Facebook Page and will be sharing photos of the rebuild in progress. If anyone is interested the link is below and you do not have to be a Facebook member to view the pictures. John reports that the pistons are the original stock size. My assumption is that this is the first major rebuild.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/J-and-M-Machine-Co-Inc-270076059772640/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1467684380011796 (https://www.facebook.com/pg/J-and-M-Machine-Co-Inc-270076059772640/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1467684380011796)
The weather has turned a little cold but I have still been making progress. I sent out my Original Generator and Starter motor to Don Allen in Florence, Oregon. Don was featured on JAY LENO'S GARAGE. Don will be completely restoring these parts to original like new condition. This includes rewinding and wiring both the Generator and Starter motor with all new parts. A "like new" engine deserves a "like new" Generator and Starter. Below is a link to Don's web site.
https://www.gener-nator.com/index.htm (https://www.gener-nator.com/index.htm)
Neither one of these processes are inexpensive and just my personal choice. Currently I am waiting for the wiring harness so if the weather gets better I will start on cleaning up the front frames and engine firewall. Of course working on the toe board will be a lot easier without the engine.
Happy Holidays, Chet...
Happy Holidays to you and everyone else as well...looking forward to seeing the progress of the rebuild!
Yeah ! Chet hope you did not go up I81 with out stopping to say hello . Live at Jct of I81 x I80 .
Checked JM site man engine is dirty and water plugs where about to go on you . .
Tom,
I thought you lived in upstate NY. I am not sure where i81/i80 are.., we just let the GPS lead us to where we needed to go. I believe we were on i81 between Bridgeport & Hartford. Probably 81 to 84 just don't remember now. Are you in Connecticut or NY ? We were only in NY long enough to get from NJ to Connecticut.
No middle of eastern Pa. Hour and half north of Hershey . You probably went up I 95 thur Jersey .
Quote from: Articifer Tom on December 14, 2017, 06:09:08 PM
No middle of eastern Pa. Hour and half north of Hershey . You probably went up I 95 thur Jersey .
That's right, I knew you were North and not in Connecticut. Either way I'll be going back to get the motor when they are finished.
As far as the motor is concerned yes we were right on the edge of usefull life. Basically fixing many years of neglect and not just the motor.
The pictures by J & M should keep us entertained. Been a long time since seeing a bare engine and all the parts. I may have to remove my valve spring cover to see how bad it is. Hope all goes smoothly. frank
Anyone have these rear mounts re-vulcanized. If so how did they come out ?
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor11.jpg)
Odds & Ends
While the motor and other items are out for repair I cleaned up the front section of the frame. The electrical harness arrived rather quickly so I also stripped the firewall and prepped it for paint. Once these final areas are cleaned and painted I can install the wiring harness and get the car ready for the rebuilt engine. Fingers crossed.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_043.jpg)
I removed the rear motor mounts. These items have been in the car since it was manufactured. The rubber was as hard as a rock. I will send these out to have new rubber volcanized onto the existing mounts. I painted the inner sections of the front frames. This was the only portion of the frame that I hadn't gotten to. I cleaned and painted the outer sections when I did the front suspension work.
Getting the firewall ready for paint basically took two days. Stripping all the brackets and misc. items allow me to be able to strip the old paint off. It's much easier to do if you don't have to negotiate around objects. So it took two days to prepare the surface to spray 60 seconds of primer twice. I was able to bring the garage air temperature up to 63 degrees with 36% humidity. Not bad considering it was in the high forties outside.
The space heater in front of the firewall is just to keep the temperature near the firewall at 70-75 degrees. Primer dries quickly so I will let it dry for a couple of hours.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_045.jpg)
Saturday the outdoor temperature might possibly go into the low 60's. If it doesn't rain I'll paint the finish coat.
Well New Year / Change of Plan
After reviewing where I am going with this project it's clear that my old car needs to be completely repainted. Since the car is totally stripped down now I have to switch gears and decide on a body color that is in the very least close to an original color. I thought Black which is easy and non controversial but then the original color of my car was the lighter Blue. I would guess Marine Blue. I can't start assembling things including installing the wire harness if I will be painting the car at a later date. Easier to paint now then start installing items for the last time.
Need Guidance:
- Firewall painted same as body
- In a two tone car lets say Blue Body with Black trim & Black fenders
- Dashboard Question ? What color
- Window Trim Metal ? What color
- Holding down costs / paint myself / find a cost affective solution
Any words of wisdom ?? The old paint on the 29 is very stable. The red paint that has been on the car for over 10 years and is in perfect shape. Maybe an easy repaint. ? Maybe Maaco ?
Costs are piling up with the complete engine rebuild, new suspension all around, refurbished starter & generator and not yet re-chromed surround and bumpers, interior seats, roof, and items I haven't considered yet. Need to save someplace any suggestions. The upholstery I can do myself although I might have someone do the exterior roof ??
Any comments ? Chet...
Quote from: chetbrz on January 01, 2018, 05:02:53 PM
Well New Year / Change of Plan
Need Guidance:
- Firewall painted same as body
No. Black. I have spots I can see the primer under it, positive it was never the body color.
- In a two tone car lets say Blue Body with Black trim & Black fenders
Yep
- Dashboard Question ? What color
Black
- Window Trim Metal ? What color
Black
- Holding down costs / paint myself / find a cost affective solution
No input from me
[/list] Any words of wisdom ?? The old paint on the 29 is very stable. The red paint that has been on the car for over 10 years and is in perfect shape. Maybe an easy repaint. ? Maybe Maaco ?
Any comments ? Chet...
You know your skill set best, seem pretty talented at what ever you take on.
This is Great News Dave,
I had already painted the firewall black and being that the Dash was originally black.., this means that I can install the wiring harness and motor without painting the entire car now. I can leave the body painting for a later date. GREAT NEWS....
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Paint01.jpg)
Back to my original plan. :) 8)
Sir; Two months ago I bought a 1929 U fourdoor with what I think is original upholstery. I would be glad to send pictures if you like. Regards Carson
Hi Carson,
Welcome! You will find we are all partial to pictures. If your choke knob has original printing, I would love a close-up of it.
frank
Frank's correct please do post pictures.
Chet
29U Engine Refurbishment Update:
All engine parts have been cleaned and crack checked. NO Cracks in either Head or Block.!!!
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor021.jpg)
Link to all engine progress pictures at J&M Machine.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/J-and-M-Machine-Co-Inc-270076059772640/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1467684380011796 (https://www.facebook.com/pg/J-and-M-Machine-Co-Inc-270076059772640/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1467684380011796)
Now that's pretty. How much of the babbitt will be used again?
Quote from: frankp on January 10, 2018, 04:27:44 PM
Now that's pretty. How much of the babbitt will be used again?
In talking to John the builder.., he said everything new. I know for sure they will redo all the babbitts (Their specialty). New rings & pistons. I will ask him for all the old parts since he said the pistons were the original correct size. I didn't plan on any performance touch ups. Stock.
Chet...
Winter Work / Odds & Ends:The board has been so quiet I figured a quick update wouldn't hurt. The weather especially the cold weather has forced me from the garage but I am trying to continue to make progress even though my hands-on time has been greatly impacted.
What's in the works currently:
- Motor is being rebuilt by J&M Machine.
- Original Starter and Generator are being rebuilt by Don Allen in Florence, Oregon.
- I sent my RT08 carburetor parts to a gentlemen in Virginia who is rebuilding the carb and adding a new brass accelerator pump. Pricy but I believe it will be worth it.., especially for adhering to originality.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/RT08_003.jpg)
- I have also been able to clean up and restore all firewall parts (Example - Fuel pump, Tags, etc). I have spent time ordering hardware such as 1/4 20 square nuts along with the appropriate slotted screws for the firewall and other areas (Boltdepot.com (http://boltdepot.com)). I am trying to locate all incidental parts, like rubber grommets.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_046.jpg)
- I have received the wiring harness but I need to install the bottom metal dash support brackets before I can start installing any of the new wiring. Sometimes this little stuff just eats away at your time.
I founded this window regulator on eBay. It was frozen and not functional. I was able to clean it up in my ultrasonic cleaner. The ultrasound did a great job freeing up the mechanism. The paint will preserve it for another 100 years. BTW my driver's side door regulator's teeth were gone. This one was a welcome surprise.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Door02.jpg)
Part after cleaning, lube, and paint.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Door01.jpg)
Well back to the grind. Working on some indoor home improvement projects.
I received the Generator, Starter, and Carburetor back from repair. The Generator and Starter were completely rewound and all new component parts installed. See below:
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor12.jpg)
The Starter:
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor13.jpg)
The Carburetor - Looks Good but I am not familiar with the builder so we will have to see how well it works once I get the motor back. Of course I will get the motor tuned up with my old Tillotson Carb which I know works.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Motor14.jpg)
Chet,
Very snazzy! is there a diode in the relay? Does the carb man sell parts?
frank
Quote from: frankp on February 02, 2018, 02:32:47 PM
Chet,
Very snazzy! is there a diode in the relay? Does the carb man sell parts?
frank
Check your email.
If you are pleased with the rebuilders, it would be good if we could list them somewhere on the web site as references.
Post pics of the motor once all assembled!
The Front Floor Section
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/02082018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/02082018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Floor05.jpg)
Ted... Don't worry pictures will come as progress continues.
Cheers, Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Looking good with the build on the link you provided...a quick question. The battery box looks to sit parallel to the toe board/cross member. Is this the way it is on the sedan? My battery box and access cover sit parallel along the frame between the front seat and pedals.
Quote from: racertb on February 09, 2018, 09:12:42 AM
Looking good with the build on the link you provided...a quick question. The battery box looks to sit parallel to the toe board/cross member. Is this the way it is on the sedan? My battery box and access cover sit parallel along the frame between the front seat and pedals.
Hi Ted,
I think we are on the same page. I would greatly appreciate a picture of your floor.
My battery box does sit parallel to the frame and is between the front seat, pedals and parallel to the toe board (not installed yet). Maybe the picture doesn't show this but remember I have no motor, pedals, or seats installed at the moment. I had no original floor to pattern against so I created what I thought was most practical. I decided on the three sections basically because it seemed practical to me. Then Dave sent a picture of his front floor which reinforced to me that the designers of the Plymouth were also practical. So in my case I can't conform to the letter of originality because I have nothing but an occasional picture to go by. When the car is finished the floor will be covered by rubber matting in the front an a rug in the rear. I strive for a reasonable facsimile but this is very hard to accomplish without documentation. Unfortunately documentation is not available or at least I haven't found any. Always interested in the details, these conversations will help the next guy that heads down this same path.
Good question, Chet...
I'll send a pic the next time I'm out in the garage...I think I sent John Fain some pics a couple years ago.
Here's mine from the sedan. I left plenty of room to maneuver the battery in/out. I put flat aluminium on the bottom of two edges to support the cover. They are slightly visible. I did they same on the roadster. I may have a pic of the cover, but don't see it.
I guess we should have had this conversation earlier. See picture below, I finished with the floor panels yesterday.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Floor11.jpg)
Ted texted these pictures to me this afternoon:
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/BatteryBoq03.jpg)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/BatteryBoq02.jpg)
In order to make the entire front section come out to facilitate changing the battery, which is the way it was originally designed, I would have to make new cross members and trash the maple hardwood plywood which was relatively expensive. With the access door I cut into the front section I can change the battery without removing the entire front floor section. I think I will leave it like this and let the next guy decide whether to convert the floor back or not.
BTW,
Anyone have pictures of the rear metal pan which is under the rear seat in the 4 dr. sedan. It would be good to see how this matches up with the floor before I guess at it. I believe it sits 1.5" off the floor in the front and attaches to the angle metal supports in the rear ??? I think ?
Chet...
Here is all I have. At least it shows the height based on the right angle support. I thought I might have a pic of Dave's car, but don't.
Frank,
Is the metal bracket original to the car or added on for extra support ?
Chet, It was on the car. Apologize for posting the floorboard a 2nd time - I'll try to remove, done. frank
Frank or anyone with a 4 door,
Can you confirm the height of the Rear Seat Pan as 3" from the floor. It seem correct but just want to make sure.
Chet...
It will have to someone else, Chet. My car is not accessible at this time. frank
It is just shy to 3+1/8 inches on my 4door sedan
John
Thanks John,
I believe we went down this path awhile back but just needed to check. Three inches works for me and if you add the height of the metal you get a little more than 3". It appears that we have a 9 degree cut on the top of the front pan wood support to facilitate the slope of the rear seat pan to the rear frame. It all logically comes together. The sides are a right triangle with a base of 17" and height of 3" using math the calculated angle = 9.8 degrees. I measured approximately 9 degrees. So I am in the ballpark.
Thanks for the quick response, Chet...
The Full Floor Project
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
The beginning may look familiar but keep scrolling down.
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/02162018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/02162018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Floor16.jpg)
Cheers, Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Looking real good!
Chet,
Just checked your engine rebuild. Will be better than original. 4 ring pistons, mine has 3. Your floor looks great and almost complete. On to the top next?
frank
Quote from: frankp on February 28, 2018, 08:56:30 AM
... On to the top next?
frank
Frank,
I'm not sure what's next. Really can't close up the top until the dash and steering wheel are set back in. Doing bits and pieces of odds and ends in between the crappy weather days. Might do some wiring at least the stuff that will not get damaged if I put the motor back in.
That begs the question "What about paint and body work ?" I'll say one thing.., you can spend money on a project like this faster than you can think about it. I thought boats were a hole in the water you throw money into. Sorry never miss an opportunity to complain.
So while I try to figure out what's next I am gathering up my chrome parts and delivering them to Paul's Chrome Plating in western PA. on Monday. $$$ :) Nothing like a long drive to sort things out.
Chet...
Chet,
Chrome cost should keep you alert on your trip. Let's see, bumpers, radiator shell; I didn't do my headlamps although one is a bit dodgy with shallow dents or tail lamp - good shape.
Surprised the steering column couldn't be installed before the top. I know you said the light & hand throttle should be in place before top &/or headliner is installed. I may have dropped the column in the engine compartment to get those controls out/in.
You are so right about feeding these beasts $$$, they are insatiable. I try not to think about upholstery cost, but really needed it. Expect to have the heap home next week, weather permitting - can't wait. Mark did an excellent job. Now, if we can get handles form Mike B.
Have a safe trip and keep us posted; know you will.
frank
Hi Frank et al,
We got back yesterday from our trip to Pittsburg to see Paul's Plating. I am having the front and rear bumpers, radiator surround, and the headlight buckets re-chromed. I am also having the headlight buckets re-engraved with the manufacturing marks. Cost $5,650 This includes repairing one of the headlight rings which needs to be soldered.
To add to my financial stress I spoke with the painter today and his work seems to be the least expensive. I am going to try Maaco. Before I add anything more to the car I want to get the exterior painted. Then I will be putting things back for the last time. Paint only approximately $1,972.30 for two tone paint job. Plus any additional body work.
No pain no gain. The good news is that the wife seems to be into the program.
PS... Are we sure that the firewall and dash and door sills were Black and not the body color ? Any & all Comments Please.
I want to go with my car's original color... Marine Blue So the next step is to prep the car for paint.
Cheers, Chet...
Chet,
Goodness the cost of chrome these days! You are having additional work done though.
You may want to get the top wood installed for stability. Over spray is authentic, looking at Dave's, but it won't be seen. Are you having the wheels included in the painting cost? Same as body color, as you know.
I'm sure of black firewall. border is where the horizontal meets the vertical. See Plymouth Club page Judging Guide Group 1 .. Team 4 Engine Compartment
http://plymouthbulletin.com/guides/2012/Group1Team4.pdf
I always believed my dash was body color, but have no real proof. Same for window mouldings, rear window trim and left/right pieces for windshield.
You'll have a fabulous car when finished!
frank
All:
My dash and firewall are body colored, which may or may not be correct (I BELIEVE the dash, at least, is correct). I see what the judging guide says, but is this fact for every Plymouth ever made or the interpretation of someone who wrote the guide? Who knows if every car came off the assembly line this way without any variation, whether we're talking about firewall color or anything related to these cars. Unfortunately, it seems there is a lot of "guesswork" on how they came out of the factory. Seems like no one really knows 100% and we have to rely on original examples and/or photos which may not always be consistent with each other.
I commend Chet for his due diligence in trying to get his car as accurate as possible, as I would do the same. Personally, I would go with body color on the firewall like later Mopars...So back to my question, is the guide "gospel" and 100% factual or a best "guesstimate" of how things were or should be?
I would like to know, not trying to start an argument with anyone.
Ted
Ted,
I agree with all you said. There were very few of these cars produced in the first few years and documentation on those things is sketchy at best.
I once asked Earl Buton a pin stripe question. He basically told me that no one knows the details for certain on the early Plymouth's.
All we can do is the best we can with what information and clues we have about our early Plymouth's.
John
I, too, concur. Earl didn't express the same hesitation with me and was very definitive. Anyway, as he is the final arbiter for judging, I respected his knowledge (opinion) for how it was done and tried to follow.
Re: firewall color. Here's Dave's car. I have an old pic of my dash and will look for it. Thought it was scanned in the past, but no. frank
Very perplexing issue our cars.
First in answer to Franks comments:
Frank, I agree with getting the roof installed along with any metal work that needs to be fabricated like the top metal door frame pieces. My original pieces are mostly painted rust. No.., the wheels are a project in themselves. Just ask Ted. What a great job he did. My wheels will just have to wait, right now I have bigger fish to fry.
As far as the ambiguity of our cars go I have to think Dave's car is my standard at this point. I am a member of the Delaware Valley Region and one of the other members is a former POC president who owns an original 29 Plymouth 4 door sedan. Really nice guy Joe Hernandez. His car hasn't moved in awhile and he said that when the weather gets warmer we could dig it out of the garage so I can get my eyeballs on yet another example of a 29 Plymouth.
Below is a picture of my dash from a work effort I haven't posted yet. In sanding and working on the dash I believe the Blue that is coming up is the same blue overspray I found on the remains of some original wood pieces. Can I definitively say that someone else didn't paint this car Blue before it was repainted Red, maybe or maybe it is the original color. Who can really say. Below the blue was a very stubborn, porous & gummy black. This is the same I found on the firewall. Primer or topcoat ?
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/Dash01.jpg)
I think as time goes on being 100% correct is impossible but getting 85% right might be attainable. The main and most important thing is to be 120% happy with what you have. I will have to read over the POC judging guide. The jury is still out but if I am not convinced I will comply to general agreement unless something other than that makes me happy.
:), Chet...
Chet,
As you reiterate, who knows for sure, and they made running changes during assembly. I have Depressed Beam headlamps; roadster has Two-Lite. Does this mean along the way both the Two-Lite were replaced on the sedan? Could be, but they looked pretty neglected when I got it. Oh well, another deduction, if having it judged.
I met Joe at a summer meet in Grand Rapids, MN. I'm glad to hear he's still around and, I hope, in good health. He was very cordial and laid-back and gave me a few suggestions on what was right and needed correcting without being heavy handed. Please say hello for me, although he may not remember me. With his car and Dave's as examples, you can't help but be correct. In my old age I have shaded from strictly 100% original, e.g. upholstery. The blue is as close as I could find to the original and the headliner is a complementary shade of blue. I've seen the "original" light taupe headliner and didn't care for the way it looked, so...
Woodworker and metal fabricator - what exactly don't you do?!!
frank
Frank I'm not strict about anything the way I figure it is basically Mind over Matter. "if you don't mind, it don't matter".
I will tell Joe you sent your kind regards. Most of the people I have met in the Delaware Valley Region believe that its your car so do what makes you happy. Which to me makes sense because that 's what a hobby is all about. The only caveat is.., if you want it judged these are the guidelines. Doesn't seem unreasonable.
Basically I am not trying to build a perfect repro but more like a family heirloom. If both conditions get met then its serendipity. (an aptitude for making desirable discoveries by accident.) I love that word, it describes my life.
Well, I'm glad everyone took my comments as just comments and no one got upset...I was wondering if I was going to get "hammered" with replies :)
Anyway, regardless of which way you go Chet, I'm sure it's going to look great when done. Whatever you are happy with is what matters most.
Ted, if you need haranguing, someone will oblige! I like to think we're a lot less snarky than a few of the AACA folks.
Thursday my car came home. Mixed blessing, now the convert has to sit out. Hoping we have no more heavy snows, ha.
Definitely can have your car any way you choose. Only limited by imagination - practicality, maybe?
The Roof Progress
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/03162018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/03162018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Roof_06.jpg)
Thanks for all the help with this, Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
The Roof Progress Continued
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/03282018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/03282018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Roof_09.jpg)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Chet, Great work! Your ingenuity continues to amaze! frank
What Frank said!
Thanks guys,
Beautiful day today getting a lot done. 73 degrees at 1:50 PM
The Roof Lath
I took advantage of the summer like weather and made some incremental progress to the old car.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/04052018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/04052018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Roof_16.jpg)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Nice repair on the dash. You may want to re-think painting the dash in situ. Getting adequate coverage on ends, bottom and back might be difficult. frank
(Like your "sooner or later" to John. The "later" is what worries me)
You're right about the Dash Frank, but I will still need it installed. I don't want them disassembling the dash especially because of the obsolete surface screws. I'll mask it with brown paper and paint it separately or work something out with the shop. I would like to remove all the fenders. It would make for sharp paint edges by painting the fenders off the car. I think the painter might prefer doing it this way. I'll talk with him when the time comes. In the very least I most definitely want the rear fenders removed and painted separately. Still quite a bit away but getting ever closer.
Chet,
You're handy with a welder, you could fab an angle iron piece in place of the dash. The steering column could be securely attached for wheeling wherever. If you choose to use body color, dash is ready to shoot with car, along with interior window trim; I know you won't forget the rear window - I did but my upholsterer didn't.
As you say, fender removal is a requisite for a good gloss black all over. Mine were painted separately. I'm sure you know the panel under the doors down to the running boards is black, at least on my car.
frank
Chet,
I can loan you the original dash from my car. It had too many holes cut into it to use otherwise. I used it to move my car to the paint and body shop.
John
Thanks John for the offer. I don't see this as a big problem. The dash is easily masked so for now I think we will be OK.
Anyway still time before the car goes to paint. I have top door sills to make and also some other body work. I would like to finish with the needed repair to the door wood frames. Maybe paint over the summer, we will see how much progress gets accomplished.
Prep for Paint - Door Repairs.
Lots of things going on this spring but did manage to fit in some car progress.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/05232018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/05232018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/DoorFrame09.JPG)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Chet, Check your link, the one for the plymouthowners.club is correct.
Are you sure you don't want to install window regulator until after paint? My recollection is the slotted screws face out towards inner door skin.
Great work!
frank
Quote from: frankp on May 23, 2018, 07:37:53 PM
Chet, Check your link, the one for the plymouthowners.club is correct.
frank
Frank I don't understand. What do you mean about the POC link.
Chet, Never mind, I screwed up! I blame the beer. frank
Frank, FYI
All the glass, glass channels, window weather stripping, etc., I will install after the paint. Makes for a much cleaner look. The door's center board is easily removed. Basically I installed the door locks to ensure all doors close properly and it will make the transport easier. Also less masking for the painter.
Cheers, Chet...
Prep for Paint - Upper Door Frame Repairs.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/06102018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/06102018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/DoorFrame17.jpg)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Great work, as usual, Chet!
Update on Motor & Pressure Plate
Well its been 2 years since this car has been out of the garage so it was nice to roll her out and see it sitting on its own four wheels. Also cleaning the garage bay was a welcome task.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/IMG_1305.jpg)
I ran the engine for a little while but shut it down after 5 minutes because the valves were making a lot of noise and need to be adjusted. Vacuum was excellent and oil pressure was at max 38-40psi with the vacuum fuel line plugged and the pressure relief valve set to minimum pressure. I will stabilize this once the engine is broken in a bit longer. Right now the high oil pressure is a friend.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/IMG_1306.jpg)
I used the known good old wiring and carburetor. Once I stabilize everything I will try the new carb but then again.., I might wait until the car is back from the paint shop.
Up Date on pressure plates.
I received the new style plate in the mail today and it is in excellent condition and the clutch doesn't look like it has 500 miles on it yet.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/PressurePlate13.jpg)
Also purchased the two early Plymouth pressure plates from the AACA post. Hopefully make at least one good one from the two I purchased and the parts I have left from my original, Maybe get two goods ones out of the deal, fingers crossed?
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/chetbrz/PressurePlate11.jpg)
Sometimes it seems like two steps forward and one back.., but making some progress.
Chet...
Looking great Chet ! So the other plates were old style , which you using ? Also is carb on right direction , not familiar with the cars ? But love seeing it .
Quote from: Articifer Tom on August 04, 2018, 08:40:08 PM
Looking great Chet ! So the other plates were old style , which you using ? Also is carb on right direction , not familiar with the cars ? But love seeing it .
The carb is not correct but I know it works. And yes the direction is incorrect.
I have the correct brass bowl but will install after I work the bugs out of the motor.
Not sure yet which pressure plate I will use. The one from Jay appears to be a much better design.
Looks great in the sunlight.
Prep for Paint - Last of the Door/Door Frame Repairs.
I started on this in June and over the summer have been distracted by a number of things but this weekend I finally completed this section of my project.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/11182018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/11182018.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/DoorFrame20.jpg)
Link to prior door frame repair June 10, 2018:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/06102018.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2018/06102018.htm)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Nice Chet!
Great job! Well done and that much closer to completion.
Prep for Paint - Body Work.
Well we finally got some nice weather so I was able to start the body work that needs to be finished prior to paint.
It looks like I will get my motor back shortly so I will be able to get some wrench time during the colder weather.
Need warmer temperatures for the body work.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/02022019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/02022019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_048.jpg)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Looks good Chet...can't wait to see the further progress!
Quote from: racertb on February 05, 2019, 09:12:54 AM
Looks good Chet...can't wait to see the further progress!
Ted, Me too. Hopefully pickup the motor this weekend. Maybe find out later today.
Progress, as always. If the shop id the problem with your motor, I have forgotten the answer. Good to get it back. frank
Quote from: frankp on February 05, 2019, 03:44:46 PM
Progress, as always. If the shop id the problem with your motor, I have forgotten the answer. Good to get it back. frank
Frank they had to redo #1 & 2 babbit bearings. Suspected cause lack of lubricant.
Well, I'm glad when mine was done they used plenty of assembly lube or primed pump or whatever before giving it to me. I don't remember doing anything out of ordinary before starting. In fact, I believe the last shop ran it first for a bit before delivery.
Chet, I'm sure it will go well this time. frank
Quote from: frankp on February 05, 2019, 07:40:41 PM
Well, I'm glad when mine was done they used plenty of assembly lube or primed pump or whatever before giving it to me. I don't remember doing anything out of ordinary before starting. In fact, I believe the last shop ran it first for a bit before delivery.
Chet, I'm sure it will go well this time. frank
I'll let you know. Picking up the motor this Saturday. Fingers cross. They checked out all the oil ports and they are all free from debris. Clear through the mains and crank. I really need this to work out OK. I need a shot of enthusiasm to get going again !!
Prep for Paint - Continued.
Well I finally stopped procrastinating and got a little work done.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/June-July2019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/June-July2019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_054.jpg)
Chet...
Link to Build Thread Part 1
http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0 (http://www.1948plymouth.info/28Q29U/index.php?topic=1102.0)
Prep for Paint - Continued.
It's hard to believe that on October 29 I will start the fourth year of this project. There is still a lot to be done but getting the car to the paint shop before the extreme cold weather sets in will be a big step toward completion. It seems that the project is dragging but each completed task gets me closer to driving this car again. Like reaching the halfway point in a marathon.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/09022019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/09022019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_063.jpg)
Chet...
Nice Chet. One of these days when I get back after the car, I know I'll be digging up info from your threads. Thanks!
Prep for Paint - Continued.
Finally making incremental progress. All the fenders are completed.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/09152019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/09152019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_069.jpg)
Chet...
Prep for Paint - Continued.
Moving right along. All the fenders & misc. parts are in the paint shop.
Fixing loose ends on the body before it has its turn.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/09222019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/09222019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_070.jpg)
Chet...
Reassembly - Finally :)
While the car is at the paint shop I started on the Dash Components.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/10152019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/10152019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Electrical03.jpg)
Chet...
Looking good...like the ignition switch label!
Nice work as usual Chet. Great documentation of all your progress on your web page too!
Thanks guys for the At-a-boys.
I think the documentation will help someone thinking about doing something like this. Definitely a project that involves years of work. Just finishing up on year 3. Spent 8 years of weekends on my 48 Plymouth definitely a learning experience.
Reassembly - Electrical Harness :)
With the car safely back from the paint shop I am able to make some serious progress on the reassembly.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/11202019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/11202019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Electrical_06.jpg)
Chet...
Reassembly - CLUM Switch/Horn Button :)
Long write up.
I'm glad this is finished without any damage to these very rare parts. There is a lot of info already on this site which helped make this a little easier.
Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures, I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/11242019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/11242019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Electrical_12.jpg)
Chet...
Great explanation and pics Chet! As you know, I did this last year and it is fairly easy if you take your time with it and follow the process as you laid out.
Quote from: racertb on November 24, 2019, 01:21:21 PM
Great explanation and pics Chet! As you know, I did this last year and it is fairly easy if you take your time with it and follow the process as you laid out.
Good job Ted, My main concern was dropping one of the control tubes and busting off one of the arms. So far so good. :)
Where did you get the ignition switch label? Just curious.
Hardy
I am right at the point of doing what you just did and can't tell you how great it is to have your pictures and narrative available as a reference. Doing this stuff blind is scary when you realize that replacement parts don't exist if you screw something up. What a great resource!
Quote from: cars4u on November 26, 2019, 12:09:24 PM
Where did you get the ignition switch label? Just curious.
Hardy
I got the label from forum member Frankp in 2014. I don't know where he got them from. He probably had them made up.
Russ, That's why I encourage everyone to share there repair experiences.
BTW... If the horn wire doesn't come out easily you might have to pry the insulator up. Make sure you get under the insulator's bottom metal ring. Pry between the adjustment slide and the metal ring. In my case I had to pry on both sides at the same time before it came free.
My Last Project Update for 2019 :)
Happy New Year to All
Just tying up some loose ends for 2019. It's been a very productive year. Come January I hope to jump on the old milk crate and drive this car out of the garage on its own power. Not road worthy yet but we will get there soon. It looks like 2020 will be a year for esthetics.
I hope you all have many things to be thankful for:
http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/12292019.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2019/12292019.htm)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Motor26.jpg)
Chet...
It's been quite a while to recognize everyone's work. Missed Christmas, but Happy New Year to all.
I had the Brake Fluid reservoir label made from an original and have for sale.
I had decals made for the Ignition plate, Spark knob and Choke knob. Contact Bill at precision design https://www.pdc.ca/rr/custom_decals/
These are thin film and tricky to use. You be the judge on how they look.
frank