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Thinking about buying a 29 Touring

Started by Touring29, December 03, 2021, 07:47:05 PM

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Touring29

I have been reading old posts here and this seems to be the most tech oriented forum on these old gems. I have posted on a couple of other Mopar forums before I figured out how to join this one so you may have seen this subject there.
I have been working on a 29 Touring for a lady friend /club member so it can be in the local Christmas parade. I got it running and after fixing stuck floats and several other little things I got it drivable. The clutch was not releasing completely so I adjusted it. While under the car I looked around and found that it needs some pretty major repairs. The drive shaft needs new fiber discs and the back one is really cobbled together. It has only 2 discs and no bolts that are correct. The rear main is leaking pretty bad. I removed the dust cover and greased the throw out bearing. While in there I saw that the ring gear is really chewed up. It starts but is noisy and its days are numbered. The spring shackles are all worn badly too. There are other things here and there but those are the ones that scare me. It runs like a top but I did notice that the distributor will move some which makes me worry about the drive.

I wonder if I bought it how hard is it going to be to find a flywheel or a ring gear? I know the discs are available and the distributor drive piece can be ordered from Germany. The car looks really good for its age. It has been painted sometime in its past and the seats rebuilt with good foam and vinyl covers. We really like the car but I do have other projects and I don't want to spend the next year hunting swap meets for parts that I may or may not find.

Russ T. Fender

Nice looking car and a fairly rare one at that!  If the price is right I wouldn't worry too much about the issues you described.  I am not familiar with the ring gear set up on that car but I have turned the ring gear over on other cars or moved it 90 degrees to deal with wear.  If that fails one can be made if a replacement is not available.  Parts for these cars are not easy to find but they do come up from time to time.  I recently came across a complete engine, transmission and rear end for my 30-U.  Some pictures of the engine compartment would be nice if you have them.  Is this car running a vacuum tank or electric fuel pump?  In any event I may have a flywheel/ring gear set up for your car in my parts stash in Florida.  I can check on it when I head down there at the beginning of January if you decide to go ahead and buy the car. 

Touring29

#2
It has the vacuum tank still on it but its running a little fuel pump and regulator. It has a GM alternator and is 12V negative ground. Here is a picture of the engine. I don't think its supposed to be John Deere green. As far as the price since there are no other 29 Plymouth touring cars on the market and I couldn't find any past sales I guess its just one of those deals where if everyone is happy it was a fair price. I am going to try to attach a little video of it running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KttMsuSI8YA

Russ T. Fender

Looks like a lot has been modified but could be undone if you wanted it to be more original.  It's just a matter of what you want.  I like things original with limited upgrades made primarily for safety.  In my opinion, the car you are considering is rare enough to warrant being kept original which would require a fair amount of retrofitting.  You are certainly correct about pricing under the circumstances.  In my opinion the modifications negatively affect value but the rarity of the car offsets that somewhat.  Oddly, the market is often counter intuitive so rarity does not always equate with value.  As you say, it's a matter of the buyer and seller agreeing on a number that works for them.  You might try to see if there are any other '29 Plymouths on the market, regardless of body style, and make adjustments accordingly for condition recognizing that open cars go for more than closed cars.  I have paid more than I felt a car was worth because I wanted it and never regretted the decision.  It's more visceral than analytical.

Touring29

#4
Yes there are several things that even I can tell aren't original. The bumpers headlights are a couple. I am not a purist but also try to keep things as original as possible as long as its safe. Right now I am in the middle of another huge car project so if we bought this I would need to just do quick things for a while. The car was once in a museum and I am guessing they only addressed things that were visible. Underneath its pretty much original and what has been done was a long time ago and probably with the correct parts. My wife really likes the Plymouth. She will be driving it tonight in the parade since the owner is out of town. She will be driving the Grand Marshal. Here they are decorating it

chetbrz

Very nice, very rare, restorable old Plymouth.  Is the dash tag readable?  The Fedco Plate.

As Russ said parts for an old car like this are hard to come by but not impossible to find or have made.  The hardest parts are body parts and for the most part this car looks pretty complete.  If you are interested in an original restoration, you can fix the obvious and drive it while you collected the needed restoration parts.  I puttered around with mine for around 11 years before starting the restoration.  All that time I collected the necessary parts, information, and decided on the restoration plan.   Then spent the next 4 years working on the project. 

If you choose to pass on the car, please let this site know who the seller is.  I am sure there might be some interest from a couple of members.   

Welcome Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Touring29

Since I am 69 now I probably don't have 15 more years to work on projects but I'm going to keep going as long as I am able. The owner is a friend and if we don't buy it I'll recommend that she tries here. She did say she would like to keep it local because it makes such a great parade car. The only reason it will be for sale is that her husband passed away last Feb and she needs to downsize. She hasn't officially put anything on the market yet but did offer them to us. She has a Model A sedan street rod that is gorgeous but it will be out of my price range.

Russ T. Fender

I'm 76 and am just finishing up a three year restoration of the 30-U that I have owned since 1962.  If I didn't already have 10 cars and no more room I wouldn't think twice about taking on another project.   The touring you are looking at is very tempting.  Please keep us posted.

Touring29

#8
Quote from: chetbrz on December 04, 2021, 02:40:58 PM
Very nice, very rare, restorable old Plymouth.  Is the dash tag readable?  The Fedco Plate.

As Russ said parts for an old car like this are hard to come by but not impossible to find or have made.  The hardest parts are body parts and for the most part this car looks pretty complete.  If you are interested in an original restoration, you can fix the obvious and drive it while you collected the needed restoration parts.  I puttered around with mine for around 11 years before starting the restoration.  All that time I collected the necessary parts, information, and decided on the restoration plan.   Then spent the next 4 years working on the project. 

If you choose to pass on the car, please let this site know who the seller is.  I am sure there might be some interest from a couple of members.   

Welcome Chet..

The Fedco plate it still on the dash and in pretty good shape. The number is RS335E If I have it right that's 46,3358

Touring29

#9
About the parade... We had a 750 W inverter clipped to the battery and when they put the lights on the car it worked fine for a couple of hours non stop. When we took the picture you see above it didn't want to stay on. I attributed it to the battery being a little low and brought it back to a full charge. I tried the lights several times and they worked fine. Fast Forward to the parade. We were staged two hours before it started. We clicked the inverter on a couple of times for pictures and it worked fine. The parade started and boom it shut off within seconds. You could push the button and it would light the car for a few seconds and go off. My wife drove the whole route with a finger on the button turning it back on. She says her finger is raw! No one realized it wasn't supposed to go off and on and it was a success.

The moral of this story is modern technology let us down but 1929 technology worked fine!

chetbrz

Quote from: chetbrz on December 04, 2021, 02:40:58 PM

The Fedco plate it still on the dash and in pretty good shape. The number is RS335E If I have it right that's 46,3358

According to the Fedco Number it appears this car was manufactured in or around early April of 1929.  It seems that this car was manufactured within the first year of Plymouth production.  The Q line started in June of 1928 and the U line started in January of 1929.  Both the Q & U were manufactured at the same time in January of 1929 until the line for the Q shut down the first week of February 1929.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/SupportPages/FEDCO_Information.htm

Enjoy Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Touring29

#11
Quote from: Russ T. Fender on December 04, 2021, 09:58:29 AM
Nice looking car and a fairly rare one at that!  If the price is right I wouldn't worry too much about the issues you described.  I am not familiar with the ring gear set up on that car but I have turned the ring gear over on other cars or moved it 90 degrees to deal with wear.  If that fails one can be made if a replacement is not available.  Parts for these cars are not easy to find but they do come up from time to time.  I recently came across a complete engine, transmission and rear end for my 30-U.  Some pictures of the engine compartment would be nice if you have them.  Is this car running a vacuum tank or electric fuel pump?  In any event I may have a flywheel/ring gear set up for your car in my parts stash in Florida.  I can check on it when I head down there at the beginning of January if you decide to go ahead and buy the car.

I don't know if the price is right or not :) there is nothing to compare it to. I can't find where any early Plymouth touring or phaeton's have been sold or even on the market. What would you folks think a fair price would be?


Russ T. Fender

Without actually driving and seeing the car and the condition of the paint, interior and top it is very difficult to come up with a number.  Assuming the paint is good and the top and interior are also good (pictures rarely tell the whole story however) you have some of  the most expensive items covered.  The fact that it is a rare body style is a plus but the number of incorrect  items offsets that somewhat and you have to take into consideration the cost of correcting those issues if you want a complete correct car.  If that was a 100 point car I would expect it to be worth $25,000 but you have to remember that it would probably have cost twice that much or more to get it to that level.  Unfortunately,  because of the difficulty in obtaining parts Plymouths don't have the following that Model A Fords have even though Plymouth is twice the car in my estimation having owned and driven both regularly over the years.  As a result, sales are more difficult and often result in considerably lower prices being paid for the Plymouth when compared to a comparable Model A Ford for example.  If I was looking to buy that car based on the assumptions I stated above I would think something in the $10,000 to $12,000 range would be reasonable once you add in the cost of bringing it up to a level that I would be happy with.  That number is based on being able to get my money back after making the necessary improvements recognizing that the drive train has not been restored and that potentially can be a big expense.  I am sure the seller has much more than that in the car and probably feels it is worth much more as a result but the reality is that one rarely recovers the cost of a restoration.  My estimate is based on a clinical evaluation but I suspect that most decisions are based on less tangible input.  Would I pay $15,000 for the car if I really wanted it?  Yes and probably even more if I really, really wanted it.   There may well be someone out there who has been looking for just this car and would be willing to pay whatever it takes to get it but that does not really reflect the market any more than what an owner has invested in a restoration.  If you are looking for a deal that is fair to both buyer and seller make an offer based on what you think the car is worth to you and if  that works fine.  If not walk away.

Touring29

The current owner didn't restore the car, as far as I can figure out the last several owners didn't. It was in a museum for a while. I actually talked to a lady who has worked there for over 30 years. She said the car was the same color then and they didn't do anything to it. The museum downsized in 2007 and the car was sold around that time. The current owner bought it in 2013. I haven't been able to piece any more of its history together other than at one time it was in Mystic Connecticut. It has the expected scratches and chips from a earlier paint job. The motor seems to be the best part of the drivetrain, the brakes feel as good as drum brakes ever do so that other than the rear main leaking and the starter ring those things seem good to go.

They paid quite a bit more for it than she is asking me but that doesn't necessarily reflect current trends and what is selling.  I am not a flipper and rarely sell anything so making money on it isn't a goal. I would like to not be in so deep that I would loose a lot if I did have to sell it.

Thanks for the insights. As things progress I'll share it.

Touring29

Well we committed to buy the 29 today. The title is in her late husbands name and all that is at her lawyers. I told her when its all took care of we will buy it. She has had a lot to deal with and I'm not in a hurry so I don't know when that will be. Right now its just a verbal agreement but I don't expect anything to change.