28Q29U Plymouth Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 1930 on January 27, 2013, 04:02:51 PM

Title: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 27, 2013, 04:02:51 PM
I have asked this on the AACA forum and no-one recognizes what year and any details of these small booklets, un-dated. Some of them are Dodge and some Plymouth I have picked up over the years.

I am assuming maybe they were part of the original paperwork that came with the car. None of them have even a hint of a picture, only text. I am guessing 1937 or so but maybe one of you guys could pin-point it better for me

5 3/4 by 4 1/2
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: Tinkeys on January 28, 2013, 06:57:55 AM
Hi Jason !
I am assuming these books not mentioning a year if no pictures ?
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: Old Man on January 28, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
They are very similar in size and color to the booklet that was in the side pocket when you bought the car or truck new. Even the wording is the same. Except they're missing what vehicle they were for. 
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 28, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
Strange, arent they, what is that other forum, P 124 or sumpthin or other, its been a long time since I visited that site. Maybe someone there would know.

No no year, zilch, if I knew the later cars better I could prob. take a pretty good guess at year and model by the text.

EDIT: OK P 15 forum, forget it though, I cant remember my password, tried requesting it and it will not let me get past the security deal where I type in what its showing me only to still be denied.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: chetbrz on January 28, 2013, 08:42:25 PM
What's described in the books ?
Do they seem like generic driving instructions that would apply to any car or are they more specific ?
Is there a table of contents ?
I suppose you looked for a copyright date.

My 2 cents, very interesting stuff though.

Chet
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 29, 2013, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: chetbrz on January 28, 2013, 08:42:25 PM
What's described in the books ?
Do they seem like generic driving instructions that would apply to any car or are they more specific ?
Is there a table of contents ?
I suppose you looked for a copyright date.

My 2 cents, very interesting stuff though.

Chet
Here you go Chet, good luck, may not be in the correct order.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 29, 2013, 06:04:24 PM
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Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 29, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
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Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 29, 2013, 06:05:43 PM
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Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 29, 2013, 06:06:57 PM
I guess I mispoke, all the other are Dodge Brothers, I am thinking because of the Brothers it is prior to 38 or so. This is the only Plymouth.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: chetbrz on January 29, 2013, 08:25:22 PM
The emblem on the cover looks like a 1933 radiator emblem.  I'm surprised that there isn't a printing date.

Oh we'll,  interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 30, 2013, 06:55:54 AM
Quote from: chetbrz on January 29, 2013, 08:25:22 PM
The emblem on the cover looks like a 1933 radiator emblem.  I'm surprised that there isn't a printing date.

Oh we'll,  interesting stuff.
So is there anything within the print that you spot that stands out as either certainly a 33 or maybe significantly later?

Did 33 only use this radiator emblem?

Did a 33 Plymouth come with the conventional instruction booklet that we are all accustomed to seeing I.E larger, popular format that we recognize shared amongst many Chrysler products of the era?

I did have someone recognize one of the Dodge books as a possibility of being a 31 based on the info within, does not make alot of sense to me though cause I have a 31 Dodge instruction booklet and cannot come up with a justifiable reason that there would have been two variations printed.

I guess these may be more interesting than I thought if they are truly that early which is where my interests lie.
Thanks
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: Old Man on January 30, 2013, 03:42:39 PM
That black and white 'narrowing to a point' ship crest started in 1931 with the PA Plymouth. The rad medallion was square before that. The '33 came with the conventional booklet with 'PLYMOUTH SIX' or words to that effect on their cover. There were about 4 issues in '33 both 1st and 2nd editions for the PC and then the PD as well as Canadian versions. But all had the description for the car on the cover. However they did have that page 'A Personal Message to Plymouth Owners' and the 'Lock your car' on the facing page up front like yours. But the very next page has a photo(?) of the front seat and dash area  of the car as in all the booklets I've ever seen from Chrysler. I have never seen these booklets in my 35 years of playing with old Chrysler cars. Where did you get them?
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 30, 2013, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: Old Man on January 30, 2013, 03:42:39 PM
That black and white 'narrowing to a point' ship crest started in 1931 with the PA Plymouth. The rad medallion was square before that. The '33 came with the conventional booklet with 'PLYMOUTH SIX' or words to that effect on their cover. There were about 4 issues in '33 both 1st and 2nd editions for the PC and then the PD as well as Canadian versions. But all had the description for the car on the cover. However they did have that page 'A Personal Message to Plymouth Owners' and the 'Lock your car' on the facing page up front like yours. But the very next page has a photo(?) of the front seat and dash area  of the car as in all the booklets I've ever seen from Chrysler. I have never seen these booklets in my 35 years of playing with old Chrysler cars. Where did you get them?
Yes I have seen the conventional instruction booklets, pretty familiar with them. Maybe these were an alternative instruction booklet, Chrysler was looking at any and all possibilities during this time to save cost. I do not know where they came from for sure, e-bay would be a good bet though.  

I have had them for at least a few years now. I am going to take a good hard look at all of them and compare them, will comment if I come up with anything. Thanks
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: chetbrz on January 31, 2013, 07:25:31 AM
I contacted Jim Benjaminson and he forwarded this link to a long time collector of Chrysler documentation.  This was his response about the books.

Hello,

Jim B. forwarded your e-mail to me.   For nearly 50 years I have been collecting all Plymouth literature from 1928 to 2001.  

In the collection I have the following Owners Manuals:

1928 1st ed 6/28 * USA & Canada

       2nd ed 8/28     "            "

       3rd ed 10/28    "

1929 4th ed 1/29 * USA & Canada

       5th ed 5/29 *    "            "

       6th ed 8/29 *    "


With at least 10 printings for '28-'29  Plymouth cars. I would feel fairly sure these books are not from CO/C.

As far as the books,  If you would care to send me info on them I'd be willing to give them my best guess.

regards,

Andy  

I will drop him an email for more info.  No time this morning.

Chet...\

PS...  Jason,

Did you acquire these books locally?  They may have been printed by a large local car dealership and used for previously own vehicles.  The absence of a copyright date or printer info may point to a local regional printer.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on January 31, 2013, 05:45:29 PM
Thanks very much Chet, I believe that the thought of used cars did cross my mind at least once but it was dismissed due to all of them using the Chrysler Corp I.D at bottom of pamphlet and the sequence or I.D numbers that appear at the bottom of all period Chrysler corp issued literature.

In this particular case it would be D-2411.  

Thats not to say of course that these may be replacement manuals offered directly from Chrysler but that is probably not the case as replacement manuals were readily avail. from Chrysler for a long time after models were released.

Can you explain the meaning of this.......I would feel fairly sure these books are not from CO/C..........Somehow I am missing what CO/C is.

Maybe there is a way to pinpoint a time frame using the number located at bottom of literature, I will see if I can make out a pattern with some other dated material that I have.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: chetbrz on February 01, 2013, 06:57:01 AM
Hi Jason,

I haven't had a chance to follow up with Jim's contact Andy.  I to am confused with the term "CO/C".

As far as the used car's are concerned I was thinking of a large regional dealership that used these for used Chrysler Products not other cars.  Of course this is just a guess and has no research merit.  Jim is a published Plymouth historian and his friend Andy, who I don't know, he states that he has been collecting Chrysler documentation for a lifetime. (50 years)  I am not sure if they are convinced that these are Chrysler publications and might be old copies or reprints.  But the jury is still out and we learn new things every day.

I will try to get in contact with Andy and forward the pictures you posted.  Maybe he has seen something like these books over his years of collecting.  Unfortunately I have some things going on right now that are slowing me down a little but will be in touch soon.

Chet...
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: Old Man on February 01, 2013, 10:16:39 AM
Any American publications that I have from Chrysler Corp. have a 'D' number at the bottom of the front cover. Any Canadian ones have a 'WM' number.  
Had an epiphany. Would 'D' stand for Detroit and 'WM' stand for Windsor Manufacture?  
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 01, 2013, 06:14:46 PM
Quote from: chetbrz on February 01, 2013, 06:57:01 AM
Hi Jason,

I haven't had a chance to follow up with Jim's contact Andy.  I to am confused with the term "CO/C".

As far as the used car's are concerned I was thinking of a large regional dealership that used these for used Chrysler Products not other cars.  Of course this is just a guess and has no research merit.  Jim is a published Plymouth historian and his friend Andy, who I don't know, he states that he has been collecting Chrysler documentation for a lifetime. (50 years)  I am not sure if they are convinced that these are Chrysler publications and might be old copies or reprints.  But the jury is still out and we learn new things every day.

I will try to get in contact with Andy and forward the pictures you posted.  Maybe he has seen something like these books over his years of collecting.  Unfortunately I have some things going on right now that are slowing me down a little but will be in touch soon.

Chet...

No rush, I appreciate your effort, this may sound a little crazy and hopefully it will not offend Jim but I seem to remember him telling me maybe a couple of years ( at most ) ago whilst I was re-searching something else that as far as he knew there was never a Plymouth parts book printed here in the U.S until sometime in the 30s.

I thought that maybe he was mistaken and I showed him a copy of a 29 Plymouth parts manual that I had dug up. I stood corrected as he re-iterated that no such thing as a U.S parts manual and the one I was showing him was a Canadian. ( Again I may be waay off here on all of this, I have alot going on as well and it is difficult to remember everything that is mentioned to me )

Anyway I went digging for something else today ( Dodge related ) and I came across a Plymouth parts list first edition June 1928 affective with serial # HL950P

Maybe this could be of interest to someone, not interested in selling it but am more than anxious to help someone that might glean info from it. Might be you will tell me these are common and we can forget this post ever existed but if this is maybe something of interest to anyone here or Jim maybe you could pass along the invite to ask for further information concerning this copy I have found.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 01, 2013, 06:17:12 PM
Quote from: Old Man on February 01, 2013, 10:16:39 AM
Any American publications that I have from Chrysler Corp. have a 'D' number at the bottom of the front cover. Any Canadian ones have a 'WM' number.  
Had an epiphany. Would 'D' stand for Detroit and 'WM' stand for Windsor Manufacture?  
D for Detroit makes sense. I did not think of that. I am going to look into these numbers more, look for a possible pattern, just have to find the time. Thanks
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: chetbrz on February 01, 2013, 09:18:13 PM
Quote from: 1930 on February 01, 2013, 06:14:46 PM

Maybe this could be of interest to someone, not interested in selling it but am more than anxious to help someone that might glean info from it. Might be you will tell me these are common and we can forget this post ever existed but if this is maybe something of interest to anyone here or Jim maybe you could pass along the invite to ask for further information concerning this copy I have found.

Thanks again

Hi Jason,

I am learning all the time and try to post as much information as possible to help others as pay back for the many people who have helped me over the years.  I just wish I had more time to do more work to this site.  If you have info that you think should go in the tech area let me know and we could get it posted.

Chet...
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 02, 2013, 03:13:20 AM
Quote from: chetbrz on February 01, 2013, 09:18:13 PM
Quote from: 1930 on February 01, 2013, 06:14:46 PM

Maybe this could be of interest to someone, not interested in selling it but am more than anxious to help someone that might glean info from it. Might be you will tell me these are common and we can forget this post ever existed but if this is maybe something of interest to anyone here or Jim maybe you could pass along the invite to ask for further information concerning this copy I have found.

Thanks again

Hi Jason,

I am learning all the time and try to post as much information as possible to help others as pay back for the many people who have helped me over the years.  I just wish I had more time to do more work to this site.  If you have info that you think should go in the tech area let me know and we could get it posted.

Chet...

Thanks for your effort, I will e-mail Jim ( maybe, if I do indeed have his e-mail address ) and get his take on the parts book.

EDIT: I did e-mail Jim and sent this e-mail.....Hello Jim, I hope things are well, I may be mistaken but I thought you had mentioned too me at one time  that as far as you knew there was never a Plymouth parts book printed here in the U.S until sometime in the 30s.

This was on a Plymouth forum but I do not know which it was.

Just to jog your memory..........

I thought that maybe you were mistaken and I showed you a copy of a 29 Plymouth parts manual that I had dug up. I stood corrected as you re-iterated that no such thing as a U.S parts manual and the one I was showing was a Canadian. ( I may be waay off here on all of this, I have alot going on and it is difficult to remember everything that is mentioned to me )

Anyway I went looking for something else today ( Dodge related ) and I came across a Plymouth parts list first edition June 1928 affective with serial # HL950P

Is this of interest, maybe un-common. I would just like to clarify what was said too me by yourself in the past and find out if scans of the book would help solve some mysteries for Plymouth owners. Thanks


I will let you know his response
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 02, 2013, 05:17:23 PM
Jim did get back with me and this was his response.............Morning Jason -

I may have mis-spoken about a parts book - it was the service manual that wasn't issued until 1934, the owners manual generally serving in the "service manual" capacity prior to that.

There was a master parts book covering models back to 1928 (that book has been reproduced).  I can't say that I've ever seen a parts book other than the master book for 1932 and earlier.  The parts book you mention begining with serial number HL950P would be for the first Plymouth built.

Yes, the book would be most helpful....in fact I am in correspondence with a club member right now that needs to know the make/model number of the starter for a 1929 U model.  His starter has gone to pieces and he's looking for the correct parts/numbers to try to locate the end plate that he needs.

How many pages are there to this parts book?  Is is possible to get copies of the book, etc.  

Jim B.  

................................I can and will post copies of the manual here if there is an interest, its no biggie as I plan to scan and copy it for him anyway. Its up to you guys, would you like a copy yourselves?
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: Gary 30U on February 03, 2013, 03:54:04 PM
YES, I would love to have a copy of the book. I have tried to gather as much information as I can about the 4 cyl PLymouths.

Gary R. - Happy Motoring
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 03, 2013, 04:07:51 PM
Quote from: Gary 30U on February 03, 2013, 03:54:04 PM
YES, I would love to have a copy of the book. I have tried to gather as much information as I can about the 4 cyl PLymouths.

Gary R. - Happy Motoring

I will forward the e-mail I sent Jim as its just a couple of clicks of the button that way, send me an e-mail at jhason2@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 05, 2013, 05:56:17 PM
frankp



I have tried e-mailing you the scans, keeps coming back as un-deliverable, do you have a different e-mail address ?
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: frankp on February 05, 2013, 10:40:44 PM
Jason,  puzzling, I don't have another address.  I received your 1st email with 15 files attached and your 2nd asking if 48 pages were received.  Did you get my reply?    frank
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 06, 2013, 07:28:25 PM
I just now sent the other 30 pages, I split them up, I have no errors this time so I will assume that you received them.
Title: Re: Data books
Post by: 1930 on February 06, 2013, 07:31:13 PM
Are there any 34 Plymouth owners on here that would give me a scan/copy of the front cover of their instruction book?