All:
As you may know from my previous posts, I've been fighting a timing/running issue for year now. Most recently I've made some slight adjustments to the distributor drive and distributor by removing what appeared to be excess slack/play. I did put a new gear on the distributor as well. Although that may have helped some, I'm certainly not out of the woods yet.
Yesterday I got the car running again (I took a break from it a while and also had to get a new battery) and kept in running for a good 20+ minutes before I turned it off. A minor victory. Before this, I could only get her started and keep her running for a minute or two before she'd slow down and die on me...all this while sitting in the garage. So, not sure if I fixed anything, other than take up the slack in the drives as I mentioned and a new gear.
I am posting three videos below and would like to get your feedback if you have 10 minutes to spare. The first is approximately 8 minutes and shows the car running and it's narrarted by yours truly. The second is of the tailpipe so you can hear how bad the miss is. The third is of the distributor installed on the car (car not running) and the play/wobble shown.
I know I've got an exhaust/intake leak which needs to be fixed (for the second time) that you can see in the video. Not sure if the carb also needs to be rebuilt to help matters, but I have a new float and kit to do so if needed, which I may need to anyway.
Please let me know what you think...thanks.
http://vid947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/VIDEO0035_zpsxbzuhsqf.mp4
http://vid947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/VIDEO0036_zps0qf6zsrh.mp4
http://vid947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/VIDEO0037_zpssktvqdvk.mp4
Can't see in the video but the way you were shaking the distributor it looks like your hold down screw is missing
Thanks Doug. The screw with the spring that attaches the timing lever to the housing is there and fairly tight, if that's what you're referring to. Still seems like too much wobble to me. I can check it again.
Any thoughts on the other video clips?
It kind of sounds like it's running on 3 cylinders. Does the plug in the cyl. that is squirting oil out of a hole look like it's been firing? I'd do a compression check on the engine if you haven't already. You may have gotten the distributor situation tightened up enough to run and are now seeing a separate problem. The play in your distributor looks concerning. I just went out and check mine and there's virtually no play.
ski
The spark plug washer should seal the hole.
I have seen engines running very rich and the extra fuel would weep up pass the spark plug and because of oil and other contaminants it is black and appears to be oil. My car at idle is rich, and the exhaust is very sooty. That's been discussed on here before.
Ski - the engine overall has great compression, but I have not checked each cylinder individually at this point
Doug - what you a said makes sense, not sure why I thought it could be oil
racertb, I would make an individual cylinder compression check my next step just so you know what you have. If you get a low cylinder check it again after shooting a bit of oil down the hole.
ski
A 30 distributor is a little different than a 28-29, But the advance works the same. Just looking at mine, there is no up down slop in it. And there is noticeable drag when trying to turn it. I notice you have a sprung on yours, there should be no need for a spring. Set it where you want it and it should stay. Just wandering is all that looseness allowing it to jump a tooth and get out of time
racertb where do you live?
Old Man - I am in Orange Park, Florida just outside of Jacksonville.
I was a member of the Plymouth Owners Club for many years and somewhere around here I have a couple of lists of all the members and their vehivle year of ownership. I'll try to find them amd maybe there is a owner or 2 in your area or not too many hours away that wouldn't mind you looking over their engine for clues to your problem.
I appreciate the help. I'm a member as well and might be able to inquire about a list if yours isn't readily available.
On another note, I bought a compression tester and did a dry test last night just to check each cylinder. #1 showed 61, #2 showed 58 and #3 showed 60. #4 showed nothing at all like there was a leak or problem with the gauge. Obviously, I panicked at first but tried the other cylinders again and same thing with them, nothing. I'm going to see if a schrader valve on the gauge is leaking or try another gauge. I am hoping to get a good reading on #4 to be consistent with the others.
That engine is running with a constant miss. don't believe its a vacuum leak caused miss. to me its a definite ign miss. I would be checking spark at each plug then checking firing order. A 4 cyl with start and run with 2cyl plug leads wrong. believe me i have done that a few times.
the play in the distributor is nothing to worry about. I'm pretty sure mine does the same thing.
Quick update:
Hi Ian - the firing order is correct, 1-3-4-2, and the leads are in the correct order. The plugs are fairly new, as are the plug wires, which are solid core copper. Unless there is an issue with one of the wires or plugs, I would suspect the distributor. The cap, points and condenser are also new. Unless one of these new components is the issue, maybe the distributor needs attention.
On the compression test, bought a new Craftsman kit last night and just did another dry test:
#1 = 57
#2 = 62
#3 = 59
#4 = 57
Each cylinder held these numbers steady for a good 30+ seconds before I disconnected the gauge. This is good news to me.
Those comp readings are good nothing to worry about. If anything I would say cyl 1 n 4 slighty slow for smooth consistant firing. But again wouldnt worry. Thats not your issue.
Do you have any excessive free play in the distributor shaft. And have slighty small points gap.
recertb,
I thought that you have confirmed that the distributor timing is changing. ??? Is this still the issue ?
Ted, to eliminate confusion if someone wants to review what has been suggested and accomplished to date they would have to look in multiple threads. Moving forward please do not start another thread on this topic. Every time this is presented in a new thread it is considered a new problem and it's back to square one. As you pointed out you have been fighting this for about a year. During that time many things have been accomplished and eliminated.
I hope this makes sense to you. Tks, Chet...
Chet - understood, no problem...
Ian/Chet - I took up slack in the distributor drive and distributor with shims (another thread). There was no horizontal/side to side play in the distributor, only a little veritical that I shimmed up. The only play that I see now is what is in video #3 when I lift up on the timing lever. It seems like a lot to me - maybe this is the problem under load. A few others commented in this and another site that theirs was tighter than what the video shows. The timing lever is screwed firmly down on to the housing and the screw that holds the distributor in place (once the distributor position is where you want it) is also tight.
Other than the questionable timing lever, the other obvious issue now is the intake leak.
Ian - forgot to add, points are gapped to .020, but will re-check
Well fellas, here is the latest on my Plymouth. I took some time away from it due to work and other things going on. To summarize the recent happenings:
Exhaust and Intake/Exhaust gaskets changed out, carb taken apart and cleaned, new needle/seat and float. Plugs cleaned, put in another set of points (.020) and condenser. Went back to the "old" distributor cap (good shape and fits "better").
I did send off my base and distributor to Tom Hannaford at Then and Now for inspection. The distributor checked out fine and I did bite the bullet and get a new brass base and drive from him. Mine was showing signs of wear and the hole where the distributor sits was slightly out of round causing the wobble as I've shown in a previous video. No more wobble and hoping this is a good move overall, regardless. At least I know I've done most everything external that I can do to check off the list.
With all of the above, the car had a little trouble starting (carb loading up) but finally got her going. With the exhaust/vacuum leaks fixed, sounded much better and smoother. No more consistent miss out of the tailpipe (another video), just the occasional sputter which is probably normal for these cars (?). I adjusted both the timing and the carb by ear (idle and miture screw) when she was warm to get the smoothest sound possible going off the tailpipe. I did rev her up a few times and ran her through the gears...no hesitation and still sounded great each time I listened at the tailpipe. After about 25 minutes, I shut her down for the evening (this was last weekend).
Back to the carb. She's getting a little wet (even adjusted the new float again), but the idle mixture screw helped a little when I backed it out a half turn to make leaner. Also was part of the "smoothing" process. So what I'm going to do now is replace the regulator (I run a Carter electric fuel pump) with a new one that puts out 1-4 lbs. of pressure (Holley 12-804). The old dial-type regulator is mounted in line just after the fuel pump and I'm thinking two things 1) the new regulator might help me dial in the pressure, and 2) the regulator may need to be mounted closer to the carb, but out of sight. I've seen different thoughts on this...some say needs to be close to the carb, others say it doesn't really matter.
Regardless, I'm hoping to eliminate the occasional flooding/overloading and make things even better...then the road test.
Thoughts on regulator position for those of you running an electric pump and regulator? One day I plan on restoring the vacuum tank and plumbing and seeing how that goes, but not anytime soon.
Ted
Great to hear you are making progress. If all you have now is a little splutter at idle. More than likely its slightly burnt out valves. Mine does this also.
I cant speak on pump reg. As I am running vac tank.
Ian
Here is the latest with the car dialed in. This is the best I can do and will do another road test when the weather clears. I apologize that this video is upside down 😞
http://s947.photobucket.com/user/racertb/media/20150802_125115_zpskqjlzzkw.mp4.html
Hay Ted,
The engine seems to be running fine with a really nice clean engine compartment. Does it drive OK, have you put on many miles ? Maybe replacing the base did the trick. Anyway money well spent. I hope things continue to go well so you can post pictures of your outings.
Cheers, Chet...
The car ran great for the few miles when I had it out a couple weeks ago. After that run, I put the old base back on as a test. The car barely ran and idled rough as it did before the new base was on and it flooded out, since I was pushing the gas pedal down to keep it running. I put the new base back on and problem solved. Today I used the vacuum gauge to dial it in as seen in the video above. I believe the original base was the problem, as the distributor wobbled/moved too much in the base housing. That, along with the gasket leaks I had, were the issues from what I can tell. The new base is just a little noisy, but a little quieter than when I first had it on, and I'm waiting to see what Tom Hannaford thinks the reason might be. Regardless, you can see and hear how smooth the car sounds overall (knock on wood! ☺).
I hope to get her on the road next week.
Hi Ted,
Did Tom get back to you, from what you have posted I think you can safely say the base fixed the problem. Most of the running engines out there have replaced this base at some point although like your car there are still some survivors out there still running.
Congratulations !
Great to hear your car is working well again. It sounded like quite a journey.
Thanks Chet/Hursst...just adding the pressure regulator to keep the pressure down and then a road test. Other than that, sounding good (so far!). The vacuum tank will be another project for another day.
Chet - haven't heard back from Tom after two emails...a little surprising. Will probably call him this week to ask.
Ted