Author Topic: 29 Build Thread  (Read 10033 times)

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2017, 02:13:06 AM »
Have to keep on Trucking,

Today I installed the brake support plates, brake cylinders, and pads.  As usual everything should be straight forward but I did run across a question.  My driver's side Dust Shield (Item 10 in the drawing) was on the outside of the brake support plate and the passenger side Dust Shield was positioned on the inner side of the brake support plate.  Just so we are on the same page see the diagram below.  (Item 10)



I assume that this dust shield allows grease and grime from the rear bearing to be collected and expelled out the back of the brake support plate.  The picture from the Plymouth Instruction Booklet for 1929 shows the Dust Shield behind the Brake Support Plate.  This is the way I installed these on both wheels.   See photo below:



If I misunderstood this please let me know.

Chet...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 02:20:20 AM by chetbrz »
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

racertb

  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 459
    • View Profile
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2017, 03:29:54 PM »
I don't know if this helps...took these a few weeks ago.  These are right front (passenger):






chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2017, 05:38:29 PM »
Thanks Ted,

I believe this positioning to be correct.  I believe your first picture below also supports this.

http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2017, 02:36:30 AM »
The Framing Issue:

With the front suspension completed and all 4 wheels supporting the car again I continued on the framing project.  First I stripped out the old floor to get an idea of the daunting task ahead of me.  I am very disappointed by the lack of original wood.  I was hoping that something of the sill assembly was left but to my disappointment none to be found.



Using the three frame mounting points on each side of the car (6 all together) I was able to determine my understanding of what the sill plate might have looked like.  The picture below is a rough idea and the following are my determinations.  If anyone has information other then this, please let me know.

1)  Sill plate thickness 1 3/4".  Length, width, and exact shape to be determined.
2)  Sill will be a single piece structure from front to back.
3)  Rear section support brace is secured with Lap Joints and through bolted to the frame. 
4)  The rear body section sits on 4 defined frame points which will square the back section and everything from that point forward will be measured from the back section as the reference.

The Plymouth frame construction appears to be simpler in nature then the Fisher Body which relies more on mortise joints.  the Plymouth frame utilizes metal braces at high stress connection points.  Also mortis joints are used in many places.


http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2017, 07:14:32 PM »
Frame Project Update:

This update has two many pictures to add to this post so if you are interested please click on the link below to my online project diary.
( For you younger folks a diary is the same as a blog  :) )

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01222017.htm
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

jeffrey grare

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2017, 01:11:24 AM »
Chet, I am in the process of building new main side sills.I purchased tips on auto body woodwork by Don Marsh (ebay) he explains in great detail about the main sills and how to reproduce them.He says to laminate two pieces together to prevent warping. On a car with 1-7/8 sills he says to use a 1" and  3/4" piece and to use white oak as it contains paraffin wax which will repel water.  He also explains how to replace the door woodwork using t-nuts as our cars wood framing was assembled then the sheet metal was secured to the wood.I think hjs literature was listed under Hudson or Essex on ebay.Its only about 17 or 18 pages but worth every penny' good luck J Grare

jeffrey grare

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2017, 01:31:56 AM »
Chet, just checked ebay its listed under   Tips on auto body woodwork by Don Marsh      $18.00   JG

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2017, 03:17:56 AM »
Chet, just checked ebay its listed under   Tips on auto body woodwork by Don Marsh      $18.00   JG

Thanks Jeff, for the info.  I have a lot of literature on auto frame construction.  I am using 3/4" sections of Poplar (a closed-grain hardwood) glued together on opposing grain for strength.  For me, poplar is easily obtainable from my local lumber supplier.  A member 3" wide will be constructed from 4 planks of 3/4" wide material.  The sill will be made of two planks 3/4" thick with one plank on top and bottom of a 1/4" wide middle section.   Total width 1.750 inches.  The finished sections will be painted with weather protective stain prior to final assembly.   Anyway once my car is done the chances of it being deliberately left out in the rain are slim to none.  PS... I am also using premium exterior wood glue.  I agree that white oak is more durable but also is harder to shape and is more expensive.   I appreciate your input, all these comments keep me focused and honest.

Actually I haven't cast any of this in stone yet so I am open to any and all opinions.  Actually the original frame might have been pine maybe that's why not much of it is left.  The pieces that are left are grainy and extremely light in weight ?

Chet...
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 03:30:19 PM by chetbrz »
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2017, 04:03:49 AM »

The weather here in Delaware this week has granted me permission to forge ahead with my project.

I have not yet decided what type of wood or combination of wood I will use for the sill member.  Jeffrey made a good case for white oak.  I am thinking about treated deck board with a 1/4 inch of oak glued to the top surface.  I think durability might be more important then strength.  After all, if the board is properly bolted to the frame it could support more weight then I could put into the car. 

Anyway the link below gives the blow by blow on my progress recreating the left Hinge Pillar Assembly.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01282017.htm

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

29UJohn

  • FOUNDING MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 362
  • 1929 U 4 Door Sedan
    • View Profile
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2017, 01:54:15 AM »
Chet,
If you need information on the curve of the sill wood, i have a new set of sill plates. The outer edge of the sill plates approximates the outer edge and curve of the outer wood edges.  If that would help, I could trace the sill plate edges and send to you.
I rebuilt my car's woodwork in 1974 and the sill wood had to be replaced. the edges were not in good shape, but there was enough left to figure the approx shape, and along with the sill covers I was able to get the curve shape good enough using a manual drawknife. 
Your wood plan sounds real good.  All I could do at 16 was use two each 3/4 inch pine boards treated with coprotox and sealed with marine varnish.  It worked and is still in good shape.
John
1929U 4 Dr

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2017, 05:28:41 AM »

If you need information on the curve of the sill wood, i have a new set of sill plates. The outer edge of the sill plates approximates the outer edge and curve of the outer wood edges.  If that would help, I could trace the sill plate edges and send to you.

John,

Replacing the sill members on these old cars at age 16 is quite an undertaking.  Accomplishing the repair is even more impressive.   :)

Tracing the sill plate curve would be beneficial as a check.  I was planning on using the sill outer cover to create the curve once the sill member was in place with the cowl and rear section also correctly located.  I would then ensure the alignment of the doors and center door pillar is correct before I create the curved section of wood.  This curved section would be glued and screwed to the wood sill.  Since the metal support brackets need to be mortised into the sill, I would cover the top of the sill with a 1/4 inch finish wood with the mortised sections precut. 

Question,  I think you told me that the sill plates go over the sill cover.  If so.., is the sill cover flush with the floor.  If it is, I would have to route the edge of the sill member to allow the sill cover to finish at the exact height of the floor.   Considering that these bodies were made by companies that made wood coaches, this level of craftsmanship was probably employed ?

Your thoughts,  Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

29UJohn

  • FOUNDING MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 362
  • 1929 U 4 Door Sedan
    • View Profile
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2017, 04:09:22 AM »
Chet,
Mortising in the sill covers into the floor so they are flush would seem to allow the sill plates to sit flat.  It seems like it would be better, and I have wondered about this.  But I do not think this was the case for my original floor boards, as I did not see any indication that they were mortised in.  But that was 43 years ago! 
John
1929U 4 Dr

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2017, 05:51:18 AM »
Chet,
Mortising in the sill covers into the floor so they are flush would seem to allow the sill plates to sit flat.  It seems like it would be better, and I have wondered about this.  But I do not think this was the case for my original floor boards, as I did not see any indication that they were mortised in.  But that was 43 years ago!

Great, Less work to do.  Anyway with the rubber mat in the front and rug in the rear, the cover thickness is a moot point.

Tks,  Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

chetbrz

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1215
    • View Profile
    • My Space on the Web
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2017, 09:49:58 PM »
This is a rather large update with many pictures.  So please click the link below for the details.

Creating the Sill Member and it's installation.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02132017.htm

http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

frankp

  • POC MEMBER
  • Senior Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 400
  • 29U 4dr Sedan #Y089WE
    • View Profile
Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2017, 12:26:45 AM »
Nice work, Chet!
frank p