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Another dumb question

Started by chetbrz, October 08, 2013, 12:43:42 PM

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chetbrz


This is probably a dumb question, but; did the 28/29 Plymouth have grease caps under the hubcaps for the front wheels ?

If no.., has anyone installed grease caps, there seems to be enough room ?

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

SDGlenn

The only dumb question is the one that is not asked..............

My 29 does not have grease caps thou, why not? sounds like a good idea.
Glenn
SDGlenn

imoore

Hi chet
No they don't require grease cups on the front wheels. The cavity between the inner and outter bearing cones is used as a grease supply for the bearings. When u re pack your bearings fill the centre up with grease and u are good to go.
You could probably fill the hub cap with some grease aswell.
Rotation of the wheel is what keeps the bearing greased from the supply in the hub.
Hope this makes sense.
Ian
1928 Q tourer (Holden bodied)
Several vintage stationary engine

chetbrz


Hi Ian,

Yes everything you stated makes sense to me.  I understand the method of delivering the hub grease using centrifugal force.  I also understand that a modern car with a grease cap also has a grease port drilled into the center of the axle in order to deliver new grease without removing the hub.  The 29 hub cap is pancake shaped which seems to collect grease in the outer edge of the pancaked front of the hub cap.  Maybe they designed this shape to collect the old grease expelled from the front bearing thus allowing new grease to enter from the supply in the hub.  Either way.., it seems like a ton of grease moving around.  To me, a little over kill but as you stated necessary to produce proper lubrication.

Thanks for the reply.  Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

The real reason you don't have an extra grease retainer on early cars with screw-on hub caps is becasue the Plymouth "P" cap IS the grease retainer. When they went to hub caps and wheel discs they had to install a push-fit cap on the end of the axle to keep the grease in place.   

Gary 30U

#5
I am doing a research paper on Plymouth Hub Caps like the one I did on Headlight Lenses.

What I find is that there is listed a Hub Grease Cap for Q, U, and 30U Wire wheels but not for Disc or Wood Wheels. That part number for 28 Q's is #20853, and for 29 U's and up to the 32 PB it is #301751.

I believe, (as previously stated) that the screw on cap for the Disc and Wood Wheels was intended to function as the grease cap.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Happy Motoring, Gary

P.S. If you are interested in the paper on Headlight Lenses check it out at cascadepacificplymouth.org
This is our Cascade Region website.

chetbrz


Hi Gary,

Your Cascade Region seems friendly and progressive.  Great website.  I was part of the Mid-Atlantic region for awhile, created a website for the region but nobody logged in.  Their meetings and activities were held in Maryland which was quite a drive for me so I gave up on the region.  I have been encouraging the POC to create a stronger presence on the web to include the disconnected majority of members who do not have a local region.  Basically an Internet Region but didn't get much buy in.  OK so now I am basically going off topic.

As far as the wheels are concerned I also considered that the wood wheel thickness might be a tad to large.  These were obviously respoked recently.  There are a number of suggested solutions so I am sure a resolution is at hand.

Keep up the research everyone benefits from knowledge.  That's why I created this website.  I have received help from so many people over the years from web sites like this and your region's.

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Gary 30U

#7
Chet, Thanks for the nice comments about our web site.

I couldn't sleep last night thinking about your wheel problem. I have come to the conclusion that it is probably the spokes. If they were just 1/8" wide face to face then the drum would be set in that far. It could be 1/8" on the front or back face or as little as 1/16" on each, but the result would be the same. I measured some old spokes I have off of two different cars and one set measures 1.256 ( presumably 1.25) and the other measures 1.267 just over the 1 and one quarter inches.

I didn't take a wheel off to see how far the hub extended past the drum. If you want I could do that relatively easy.

Hope this helps.

Happy Motoring, Gary

chetbrz

Quote from: Gary 30U on October 10, 2013, 01:06:16 PM
Chet, Thanks for the nice comments about our web site.

I couldn't sleep last night thinking about your wheel problem. I have come to the conclusion that it is probably the spokes. If they were just 1/8" wide face to face then the drum would be set in that far. It could be 1/8" on the front or back face or as little as 1/16" on each, but the result would be the same. I measured some old spokes I have off of two different cars and one set measures 1.256 ( presumably 1.25) and the other measures 1.267 just over the 1 and one quarter inches.

I didn't take a wheel off to see how far the hub extended past the drum. If you want I could do that relatively easy.

Hope this helps.

Happy Motoring, Gary

Well that pretty much confirms the problem.  The new wheels measure 1.5" with a straight ruler given an error factor probably +/- 1/16".  Over the weekend I will measure with a caliper.  Probably a little less then 1.5 but definitely not an inch and a quarter.  Besides the drums are painted with primer filler and then top coated so that added to the issue as well as the lacquer on the wood serface.  Might just have to sand off all the extra paint and lacquer where the drum attaches to the wood spokes.  Only interested in the additional serface diameter added to the inside section between the wheel and hub.  This would be approximately half the difference between your wheel measurement and mine. 

So ~ (1.500 - 1.250) / 2 = 0.125" or 1/8"   Perfecto !

Tks Gary,  Chet...

http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

The reason there is a grease cap on the wire wheels is because they took the 1st hub caps/wheel discs for Plymouth. (I have a set on my wall.) They would require a something to hold the grease in place or at least keep it from spining out into the rear of the fancy new hub cap.

chetbrz

#10
Quote from: Old Man on October 10, 2013, 04:33:31 PM
The reason there is a grease cap on the wire wheels is because they took the 1st hub caps/wheel discs for Plymouth. (I have a set on my wall.) They would require a something to hold the grease in place or at least keep it from spining out into the rear of the fancy new hub cap.

I absolutley understand about the use of the grease caps with the wire wheels but what do you mean by your statement, " ...they took the 1st hub caps/wheel discs for Plymouth. (I have a set on my wall.) ".  Do you mean these first Plymouth hubcaps for the wire wheels ?  A picture would help.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your statement.

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

These are the 1st hub caps/wheel discs ever used on a Plymouth car. They fit the wire wheels of '28/'29 and '30,I believe. I know for certain they fit '29 wires and you can see them on a fancy town car in a Plymouth ad from 1929. (I have the ad somewhere.) They're rare as hens teeth,maybe rarier. But so are the wire wheels to take them. 

chetbrz


Thanks for the picture.  Now if I ever run accross these things in a yard sale for 50 cents each I guess I shouldn't try to talk the price down.

Many Thanks,  Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

I'm getting close to letting them go. I've had them for years,since my '29U days. It looks like they're worth around $250 each at today's prices. Two of them are NOS. Non have dents. But as I say,finding '28/'29 or '30 wire wheels is the problem. If someone had the whole set on their Plymouth,wheels and caps, they would be the only one on the block for sure. I found them one at a time over several years but I've not seen any more in maybe 20 years.