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Engine identification?

Started by ski, April 03, 2015, 09:36:09 AM

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ski

I went on a parts run last weekend and one of the things I picked up was a complete engine & trans that was said to be from a 1931 Plymouth.  I'm using it in a future roadster project I've been accumulating parts for.  Here's a pic of the engine with the engine number.  Anyone have any idea exactly what this is?

ski

chetbrz

#1
Ski,

I doubt whether this engine was original to a 1931 PA.  Yes there was a thrift series 1 & 2 but there was no difference in the PA power plant.   I am sure it came out of a PA but I don't think it started its life in a PA.   If anything, probably a new style U motor.  Does the engine have a mechanical fuel pump, water pump, and the hose connections would be different than an old style U.  Also a different bell housing.  Do you have a picture of the whole engine?  I don't know what the T before the U means unless someone stamped it there to insinuate it was a thrift series motor. 

Sorry I didn't see the other picture.  I'm thinking New Style U motor with a T stamped in the front of the serial #. Although the 30U motor started at U200001 - U277000

My 2 cents,  Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

ski

Yes, the "T" and the low number is what puzzles me. It has a water pump, mechanical fuel pump, and different hose connections than on my 29U coupe. The generator is mounted low since the water pump occupies the space it was on the earlier engines.  The shifter has what looks like maybe a reverse lock out lever?

ski

chetbrz

Ski,

Don't sweat it.., the engine is period and if it is good and works for your purposes than what's the difference unless you are going for strict originality.  What year is the roadster you are building ?
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

ski

Chet, the "roadster" is a cut down 29 coupe someone did years ago. I bought the chassis for parts and ended up with what was left of the body a few months later. The only reason I'm interested in specifics on the engine is because I'm curious that way and possibly it might be useful if I need parts. I'll definitely use it regardless. This is a far back, back burner project.

ski

ski

Here it stashed in my backyard.  I picked up 4 sedan doors that I'll make coupe doors from.

chetbrz


Very Nice,  The engine will be fine for either parts or rebuild.  Are you keeping it as a strict 29 or will you use the PA transmission, fuel pump, water pump, ???

Nice project, keep us in the loop.  I hope to start working on mine this summer.

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

ski

My plan is to use newer engine and tranny and save the 29U shortblock in the hulk as a spare for my other coupe. I'll use original rear end and parallel leaf front end with original wire spoked rims. No fenders. (unless I find a couple) The car will look like a depression era doodle bug of sorts.  I think this car was made into a pickup at one time. 

ski

chetbrz

#8
Sounds like great fun.   When you are finished you might have to take her to the salt flats.

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

Just my 2 cents as well.
   I think by the time I got down to '31 PAs my PA had 4 blades on the fan not two. I seem to remember the last Plymouth with 2 blades was my '29U. Whatever the control on the shift lever does it ain't Plymouth. No Plymouth from those years had such a control on their shift lever. The tranny and bell housing look "foreign" to Plymouth also but I'm not sure. '31 PAs were the 1st to have a set of  "Floating Power" engine mounts under the front water pump and under the tranny. I can't tell if they are there or not. I also can't see the front universal. It should be a ball and trunion 'Detroit Universal". If it's not,it's not Plymouth. I don't know why the engine serial number has a "T" in front of it except to indicate truck use but by whom? Chrysler did 4 cylinder trucks under the Fargo,Plymouth and Dodge banner around this time. But supposedly only for export.       

ski

Thanks for the info Old Man.  The fan was a four blade that somebody cut down.  I can't see anything under the water pump but there's a threaded hole and some other fitting under the tranny, aft. The universal is a knuckle with a female spine.  I figured the T may be for truck so I'll look in that direction. 

ski

ski

Cast date on trans is 1931.  Nothing under water pump.

Old Man

It looks like somebody has taken a grinder to the area under the pump? Ugh. There would normally be a "saddle" that has 2 vertical bolt holes in it to take the floating power mount. Then the rubber sandwich mount has 2 holes in it's other lower plate which bolt it to an "A" frame that supports the mount and the front of the engine and it's "legs" are bolted to the frame. I can't tell if those holes on the bottom are the original lower mounts or not. Memory not working. You have to wonder what possessd the person to cut 2 blades off the fan unless they broke of their own accord.

Story: One of the 1st mass recalls by a car maker was by Ford because of the fan on the very first Model As in 1928. Henry being the cheapo he was,would not balance the fan blades. So lo and behold new Model A owners had the thrill of having the fan spit off a blade which promply went right through the hood. The cars which are called "AR"s were recalled and the delaer installed a balanced fan and new hood piece at no cost. These are the Model As that have red rubber steering wheels and brake/clutch covers. And I believe the parking brake lever is on the outside left near the driver's door. Quite rare today.   

chetbrz

Quote from: Old Man on April 07, 2015, 09:21:37 AM
It looks like somebody has taken a grinder to the area under the pump? Ugh. There would normally be a "saddle" that has 2 vertical bolt holes in it to take the floating power mount. Then the rubber sandwich mount has 2 holes in it's other lower plate which bolt it to an "A" frame that supports the mount and the front of the engine and it's "legs" are bolted to the frame. I can't tell if those holes on the bottom are the original lower mounts or not. Memory not working. You have to wonder what possessd the person to cut 2 blades off the fan unless they broke of their own accord.

I have a rebuilt new style U motor which also had the A frame support which I removed and if memory serves me correct the engine still had the ability to be bolted up to the 29 front motor mount.  I believe Ski would be mounting this engine in the cut down 29 coupe.

Ski will the old style 29 front motor mount, bolt up to this engine ? 
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ski

Here's a better pic of under the pump. No grinding but no floating power provision either.  The engine mounts are the same as in my 29U but I have to make an x-member. I'm researching Fargo, Packet, Freighter and early Plymouth buses when I'm unable to work in my garage.

ski