Another Decision

chetbrz · October 19, 2019, 12:40:16 PM

I have a Kingston Vacuum Fuel pump which is in need of repair to fix leaks from small holes in the bottom of the tank. Since I have yet to get this working I am not sure what other problems I might find. Prior to the rebuild, my engine was hooked up via an electric fuel pump using the Kingston pump for esthetic purposes only.

I also have a Steward Warner Vacuum Pump Model 210. Definitely available at the time and far superior to the rather inexpensive Kingston Pump. It also provides regulation and check valves to ensure problem free operation.

See pdf's below for info on the SW Model 210 - Which I am not sure if it will work properly with the metered vacuum from the oil pump assembly. Normally it is hooked up to the intake system vacuum.

Anyone have any experience with the SW-210

WHAT TO DO:

1 - Kingston with electric fuel pump.
2 - Rebuild Kingston and try to get it to work.
3 - Use the SW Model 210 with check valve to ensure no gas in the oil system.

imoore · October 20, 2019, 07:54:40 AM

My car uses the Stewart vac tank. When it is connected to the oil pump vac port. I essentially have no oil pressure. As soon as rank is connected to intake manifold and the vac port on oil pump is plugged off. I have full pressure again.

Just my experience

Ian

chetbrz · October 20, 2019, 12:57:48 PM

Quote from: imoore on October 20, 2019, 07:54:40 AM
My car uses the Stewart vac tank. When it is connected to the oil pump vac port. I essentially have no oil pressure. As soon as rank is connected to intake manifold and the vac port on oil pump is plugged off. I have full pressure again.

Just my experience

Ian

Ian,

What you said makes perfect sense. The Stewart Pump is designed to work off manifold vacuum and work with many cars regardless of type or number of cylinders. Truly universal. On the other hand the Kingston pump receives a predictable and metered amount of vacuum from the engine based on RPM. Also the size of the tubing is important. If gas line is too big the pump will not be able to lift the required amount of gas to keep the engine supplied. Likewise if the vacuum line is too big it will lessen the ability of the pump to move oil. There is a delicate balance needed of all these components in order to operate reliably with the Chrysler engine.

I am working on both devises and will try the Kingston first if I can fix all the leaks. My main concern is sucking gasoline into the oil system of my newly rebuilt engine. Hard to know the pump is working correctly until you realize some type of issue. The failure to pump gas or improperly pumping to much gas over a period of time can ruin a good day on the road. I'm sure this will be an ongoing discussion.

Chet...

racertb · October 21, 2019, 02:17:36 PM

I am running your option one. I have an electric fuel pump and using my Kingston tank for looks only. I would, however, like to rebuild the Kingston one day and see how it goes.

chetbrz · October 21, 2019, 03:23:31 PM

Quote from: racertb on October 21, 2019, 02:17:36 PM
I am running your option one. I have an electric fuel pump and using my Kingston tank for looks only. I would, however, like to rebuild the Kingston one day and see how it goes.

Ted,

I feel the same as you except after spending a small fortune rebuilding this 28hp motor the thought of sucking gasoline into the oil is changing my opinion. The other thought is a 90 year old tin can holding 16+ ounces of gas on the firewall directly over the exhaust pipe gives one pause to contemplate the benefits of a modern hidden pump with the stock Kingston look. My tin can looks good painted but has more holes than swiss cheese.

With the Stewart Warner 210 the item was available at the time and would be hooked up to the intake manifold. If the check valve failed gas would be sucked into the intake manifold. No damage to the engine. Of course the Kingston with electric fuel pump would give a better factory stock appearance. One problem with the electric pump is that it can provide to much pressure to the carter carb which would normally be gravity feed.

Talk about over thinking an issue.

Wait we have yet to hear from someone who has been using the Kingston for years problem free.

Still waiting for the car to come home from the paint shop. Maybe tomorrow !!

rwollman · October 22, 2019, 07:11:26 PM

Chet: have read with interest and fond memories yur post concerning fuel pumps..With the 28 that I helped build we had problems with fuel pump (kingston). First off leaked, second off cork floats were completely shot. Tried to cure with an electric set up but could never get the car to run right. Just too much fuel even with pressure reg on its lowest setting (1#). Next step was to blast bead and solder the outer can to stop the leaks which were mostly located in the bottom. Once repaired can was checked first with was the with gas for leaks. Once I was sure leaks were cured then can was mounted on my lathe, sanded and fiberglassed. I then turned the can back to original size and shape. This is when we tried electric pump to no avail. Then tried new cork floats on original setup but could find no cork that would stand up to to days fuel. Finally found some modern float material that was machinable so i could make the size float that I wanted. I then used a piece of brass threaded rod to replace the smooth rod in the mechanism. Resoldered the original ends back onto the threaded rod after putting nuts on both ends of float. This enabled me to control float height thus controlling the amount of gas in the can. After a few trials and errors got everything dialed in and is presently working like a charm. To check for gas in vacuum line I just installed small piece of clear plastic tubing in loop as as u can see if gas is sucking thru it at all. Hope this Helps u out.

rwollman · October 23, 2019, 07:19:57 AM

Chet- Kingston vs. Stewart Warner - I looked at SW pump and these are my thoughts. - SW is much more complicated than Kingston - yes it does have a vac release system to prevent overfilling and fuel in oil but since it works off manifold vacuum vs oil pump the vacuum signal changes (drops) at the slightest engine load so on a longer grade if lugging engine at all one could even run out of fuel where at idle signal would be strongest- I feel there are too many variables in this pump and much more to go wrong. Kingston works off oil pressure pump so as engine rpm changes so does signal - faster engine runs the more vacuum to system - makes more sense to me and much simpler in design.. just my thoughts.

chetbrz · October 23, 2019, 08:17:00 AM

Quote from: rwollman on October 23, 2019, 07:19:57 AM
Chet- Kingston vs. Stewart Warner - I looked at SW pump and these are my thoughts. - SW is much more complicated than Kingston - .... just my thoughts.

Thank you for taking the time to write down your thoughts. I am evaluating all the things you pointed out. I am currently working on both pumps. My Kingston also leaks from the bottom. If I can fix this the rest of the pump I believe to be fine. The S&W pump is complicated yes but extremely well built and designed to collect much more gas than the Kingston. If it is working properly I don't believe running out of gas due to vacuum loss would be an issue.

I'll keep you up to date on any progress.

Russ T. Fender · October 23, 2019, 10:36:27 AM

I ran a 6 volt fuel pump in my 30-U for more than 12 years without an issue. It was hidden in the frame before the vacuum tank but in order to get things going properly I had to switch to a Carter BB-1 universal carburetor. The vacuum tank on the car when I got it in 1962 was a Stewart unit so the original tank had already been replaced. That tank also had issues and that is why I went for the electric fuel pump. Right now I am in the middle of a complete restoration and have a rebuilt Kingston vacuum tank that I plan to use so I am very interested in how this plays out.

chetbrz · October 23, 2019, 12:05:58 PM

Russ did you rebuild the Kingston pump. I am always wondering if I have all the parts. But I think all the parts are associated with the float assembly. No other moving parts ?

Russ T. Fender · October 23, 2019, 05:50:19 PM

I bought it rebuilt at Hershey years ago from a guy in the chocolate field. I gave him a core unit that I had.
Over the years I picked up bits and pieces of them hoping to be able to put one together. He was there this year but I don't have his name. He might be listed in the Hershey directory under vacuum tanks but I am in Florida now and my directory is up in NY so I have no way to check on that. Maybe someone else who has the directory can look him up otherwise I will check when I head north for Thanksgiving. He does beautiful work. I may have some bits and pieces left that you are welcome to. I will check tomorrow and let you know.

chetbrz · October 23, 2019, 07:57:52 PM

Sounds good, thanks and no rush on the info I think I have everything I need for the Kingston pump.

Chet...

Russ T. Fender · October 25, 2019, 03:09:05 PM

I found the Kingston vacuum tank and it is a model 39 C. The outside tank looks to be decent and it has the inside canister as well. I took pictures but don't know how to attach them. If you can use it it's yours for the postage.

chetbrz · October 25, 2019, 04:41:13 PM

Quote from: Russ T. Fender on October 25, 2019, 03:09:05 PM
I found the Kingston vacuum tank and it is a model 39 C. The outside tank looks to be decent and it has the inside canister as well. I took pictures but don't know how to attach them. If you can use it it's yours for the postage.

Russ I would never turn away an old part looking for a new life. Email me I could PayPal you, if you have a PayPal account.

Chet.

News:

Another Decision