• Welcome to 28Q29U Plymouth Forum.
 

News:

NEW FORUM version is here. 
If you are experiencing any problems, contact chetbrz@aol.com
WELCOME Auto Registration is turned OFF. 
In order to register for this forum please contact chetbrz@aol.com to request access.

Main Menu
Menu

Show posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Show posts Menu

Messages - Old Man

#1
General Discussion / Re: 29 Build Thread
February 14, 2017, 06:19:56 PM
Chet I am finishing a very long project that is coach built like your 29 Plymouth. After looking back on it I would not have tried so desperately  to follow the exact contour of the different pieces of wood. It finally occurred to me that I could have built my own vehicle as long as the metal sheets fit in place. And I could have built it much quicker. I finally started using heavy duty Permatex clear RTV to glue the metal sheets in place. Those guys 80 odd years ago had a lot more skill and patience than I do. A lot more.  It's going together fine and yes I did use some small nails to position the steel. Nobody will every know (except you guys) that I resorted to 21st century technology. I also used carpenter's water proof glue Ina lot of places even though there was no evidence of any being originally. I think we over think the originality of the construction of these vehicles don't use the more modern methods and materials available to us . if I was to do this vehicle over again I could lop off several years I'm sure. Just my 2cents. Been there,done that.
#2
General Discussion / Re: brake lines
October 06, 2016, 03:45:43 PM
In Canada you're allowed to put back on what the vehicle came with. Most very early cars and trucks I've worked on had copper gas and brake lines. Highly illegal now on new cars. The mechanical certificate here in Ontario does not even require you to have the drive train in the vehicles. But the brakes must be up and working and all the lights. How you get vacuum wipers to work without the drive train has always been a problem. However most guys don't go through the mechanical certification until the vehicle is fully restored ,drive train and all. But that's it. If you could push the vehicle to the mechanic's shop, you could get it certified. After that you licence it and insure it and Bob's your uncle it's on the road. We do not have yearly mechanical testing,old or new vehicles. However all vehicles must go through the mechanical certification process when the ownership changes. However dealerships do not have to do it. They are exempt.       
#3
I remember when I was searching for wheel cylinders I found out that early Plymouth unstepped wheel cylinders were the same as on some modern factory towmotors or lift trucks (depending on what you call them in your area). I'm sorry I did not write down the part number but I seem to remember the bore was 1 1/4" ? As I remember the cups springs and aluminum pistons were common as dirt. It was only the actual cylinder that was needed to "rebuild" the brake cylinder. I also seem to remember that the bolts that held the cylinder in place were also common. You only have to find the cylinder. Ignore all the other stuff. Just find the cylinder that will mount up to you backing plate. 
#4
It's a head scratcher for sure. In any troubleshooting I have to assume your car is wired correctly. If it's polarization you should have more problems than you say you have. Hmmmmm. Just for the heck of it take a jumper wire from the battery over to the wire coming out of the generator. Just touch it for a second no longer. There will be a spark. This will magnetize the generator's pole pieces both in the armature and the field. The polarity of the generator is now set to the same as the car battery, positive ground,negative on the high side. The generator will always 'remember' this through something called 'reminence'. (I hope that's the correct spelling. SPELLCHECK doesn't recognize it.) It a fancy word for remaining magnetism. When the engine turns over the generator will start to ramp up it's voltage in that polarity and and a small current will run down through the cutout's pull-in winding. When the current reaches a set point,built into the winding and point's distance apart, the points close and connect the generator to the battery. The points however are wired in series to heavy copper wire and a heavy charge ,or running, current can then run over to the battery or car's loads. The reason I say all this is if the battery were polarized in the opposite polarity,all hell would break loose the moment the cutout's points closed. However no matter what polarity the generator is polarized to,it will still close it's points when a predetermined point is reached. Unfortunately. So you must NOT have had a reverse polarized generator or you would have mentioned a lot of sparking and noise coming from the generator when the engine runs? And it would seem by now you would have had the generator connect to the battery by happenstance and polarized the generator to the battery anyways. Hmmmmmm. Since the ammeter is showing a discharge in the correct direction,headlights on,I can only presume it's wired correctly. The only thing left is the generator not putting out. And since you've had it rebuilt,the only thing left however is polarization. A last though:once you have the engine running you can take a jumper wire and connect it from the input to the output of the cutout effectively taking it out of the equation. The ammeter should,under normal conditions, now show the charge/running current mentioned in my first post. This will do indicate if the cutout is still the problem. Do not leave the jumper wire on the cutout when you stop the engine. Although not disastrous in the short term, you will see a VERY large current discharge on your ammeter. That's if everything is hooked up correctly. I suppose its a good wiring check. If you do your polarization by jumping across the cutout, someone in the car should see the very large discharge,actually full scale, on the ammeter. I just noticed an error in my post, you can not polarize a generator on a running engine. It must be stopped. (Anybody owning one of these early cars would be wise to look over at the ammeter every time they shut down to make sure the points on the cutout didn't stick and did open when the generator stopped. This fault was how many batteries where ruined over night in those old days.)                         
#5
It finally hit! We have very little snow but it was 0 F this morning. Brrrrrrrrrrrr. (That's 18 below for me.) I did a cursory snow blowing just to keep ahead of it. Have fun in Florida. My 94 year old mother in law is down there for the Winter. But she says it's raining a lot?
#6
General Discussion / Re: Merry Christmas & Happy New Year
December 25, 2015, 11:13:17 AM
The same from the Great White North. Except it isn't white this year. We have no snow yet and it's barely freezing this morning. It was 16 Celsius yesterday as we all went out to the park with the grandchildren. People out walking their dogs this morning. I'm sitting at my daughter's computer west of Toronto. Even Buffalo has no snow! They were buried this time last year. But I have seen a Winter like this before in the 70s. So nothing new. But I like it because no snow blowing the 100 metre driveway and no "dangerous" driving. I don't think you have any snow either Chet? MY Skidoo days and cross country skiing are over anyways so I'd just as soon it remain this way 'til March. Happy New Year from Canada.
#7
General Discussion / Re: Generator/Cutout switch function
December 14, 2015, 03:05:55 PM
Sure Chet. Do we know if hursst found his problem?
#8
General Discussion / Re: Generator/Cutout switch function
December 06, 2015, 09:32:05 AM
Antique automotive electrical systems do not no run on their battery. They run on their generator all the time. EXCEPT when the engine slows down to idle for a stop and then the cutout relay releases and the car runs on it's battery. The ammeter will then show a discharge equal to all the loads that are on at that time,ignition,lights,heater fan etc. and the headlights will go "dim". At all other times the ammeter shows a slight "charge" of 5 to 10 amps. This isn't really a charge but the output of the generator to run the car. That's it. If the ammeter is going up to it's highest position the battery is taking that in as a charge. It should,and will, go away after a few miles as the battery charges up and the remaining amps showing will once again be what the car needs to run. It's like a "Y". The generator at the one end and the car's running load at one of the other ends and the battery at the remaining end. The cutout is in series with the generator end. If it wasn't there then the generator would just keep pumping current into the other ends,the battery and the car's load, as required and all would be fine. The only problem is when the engine slows down or is stopped altogether, the battery will try to put it's charged current right back into the generator's windings. Hence the full name of the cutout "Reverse Current Cut Out". It performs no other function  but to stop the battery from "seeing" the generator as a dump to ground. I have replaced all mine with a modern 50 amp. diode. No stuck points ,no lazy switching,no reverse current while the cutout is trying to make up it's mind.
So what's wrong with your car? Good question. You should only see a high charge at high rpm after a "hard" start as the battery is recharged. By the way, a 6 volt car runs at 7.5 to 8.0 volts when all the charging has settled down. When the car has been sitting in the garage for awhile the battery should read 6.0 cold. Both readings are determined by the condition of the battery NOT the generator. I have found it always difficult to determine when the battery has reached it's "end of life" (sulphated). I find the only way is to substitute it with a known good battery. (And I'm a retired electronics engineer.) So I suspect you have battery problems. My local tire store has a gizmo that they hook across a battery and load it and also try to charge it. They can determine if the battery has reached it's end of life. You will,I've found out troubleshooting other guy's cars, go nuts trying to fix the generator/cutout circuit when it's been the battery all along. There is no regulator on the these early cars and the makers considered the battery to be the regulator. (God bless them.) So the battery is the heart of the system and it, and it alone, determines what the generator needs to put out at all times and what voltage you will read across any point in the system at any time. Hope this all helps. If not please ask. 

(p.s.; Some after breakfast thoughts. The battery in these old cars is a "brute force" regulator. This is why they heat up and evaporate their water as a natural course of events. If not looked after they will bend their plates and short out a cell. The old books tell of batteries being changed every year(!) and loaner batteries being put in cars while the battery shop tried to "rebuild" theirs. Thankfully our batteries do not even resemble those batteries of long ago. However the battery is still the regulator in your 30U. By 1934/35 Chrysler gave in and put a regulator on the generator housing along with the cutout. However it only regulated voltage and this is why we call the regulator a "voltage regulator" even though by the end of the 30s they installed a 3rd relay to regulate current as well. They also found the heat of the generator and engine to be too much and it changed the operating points of the relays,both cutout and voltage, and they moved it to the firewall to cool it down. They then had to put a fourth wire on it to bring the generator's ground over to the regulator because there was too much resistance in the engine mounts and fenders etc.  And modern cars still run on their generators not their batteries. We forget the correct term for the car's battery is the "Storage battery". It's only there to store current so the car can be restarted. Today,atleast, it serves no other purpose. 
One further note: While troubleshooting these early cars with no regulator, DO NOT disconnect the battery while the engine is running. Since the battery is the regulator,the generator will ramp up to about 24 volts(!) and blow everything on the car from lights to the tubes in the radio. Anything that's "on" at the time. Again, the battery's terminal voltage is what determines the voltage across the car's load. Later cars with regulators could actually have their battery disconnected on a running engine and the voltage would remain at 7.5 v.(or 14.8 for 12 volt systems). I understand this stunt can no longer be done to vehicles from about 2000 onwards because of computerization.     
#9
General Discussion / Re: Optima 6V Battery
November 08, 2015, 01:18:27 PM
Just about all the problems owners have with their 6 volt systems come from talking "voltage" instead of "current". The old mechanics never tested for voltage they always talked to me about current. In fact old "tar" topped batteries had exposed connectors that mechanics placed a forked device with an ammeter on it  to check if an individual cell would produce enough current. They didn't check voltage. Didn't care. What does this mean to us. We need to talk current just like they did. We have to have the lowest possible resistance materials to take the current. We have to keep connectors clean and I recommend internal tooth star washers on every connector not ordinary split washers. I too use tractor batteries and have for 40 years. I never get less than 10 years out of them and some times 12. And yes keep a trickle charger on them or charge them with a regular charger once a month through the Winter. I do the latter. And keep them in an unheated building on a shelf. Do not keep them in your heated shop. In an unheated "Winter" room they will self discharge about 1% per month. In your heated shop about 50% per month./   
#10
I highly recommend you do what they do for cracks in aircraft like this. Clean the end of the crack and get a magnifying glass and find where the crack ends. Then take a drill with a 1/8" bit ,or 1/16" if you can manage it,and drill a hole at the end of the crack. This will stop the crack from going any further while you find some one to weld it shut for you. They actually do this on propellors. But they don't weld the prop cracks.
#11
General Discussion / Re: '30-U
October 01, 2015, 09:49:57 AM
If the knock is in a rod bearing or the crankshaft you're in for a lot of time and money unfortunetely. Bearing inserts did not appear until 1933 PC six cylinders. Your engine bearings are slung/poured babbit. Normally the whole engine is turned upside down and new babbit is pour,hot, into and on the crankshaft bearing surfaces. The bearing caps get the same treatment. Then the caps are assembled to the upside down engine and "line bored". This is a boring machine that makes a "hole" in perfect alignment from number one bearing through to the last. The bearings on the connecting rods,cap and rod, are treated the same way. Babbit is a mixture of lead and antimony. Then you assemble the engine and put it back in the car. Historically it was common  for almost all shops to do it. Today there are not many places around that do it anymore. Hope this isn't your problem but if it is you best get at it because it will take many months to complete it.  It sounds like the rest of the car is in original condition. Can you give us some photos.       
#12
I believe there's a guy in the Plymouth Club,Floyd Carlstrom, who sells the cables and the right paper stickers for the ends. Although I recommend as soon as you get then you go to a sign shop and them repro'd in vinyl for longevity.
#13
In the early days of aviation they found that the "loose" engines,mostly radials, were "self changers" and leaked oil all over their nacelles and wings making a great mess. A mixture of linseed oil and a few other things made a water soluble cleaner that didn't hurt any aircraft bits. It was called GUNK and is still used today. I buy it as an offbrand called DUNK because its' a lot cheaper. I run it  through my table top parts washer and also spray it on larger parts out in the "back 40". (I live on 3 acres in the country.) And then spray things with a Sears high pressure gas engined washer. ps I used introduced to it in my CAF airforce days. They use it. Or atleast did. (I think I may have been in when the last of the radials were around,P+W R1300 9 cylinders. 1300 is 1,300 cubic inches! Each cylinder was 145 c.i. almost the same as one of our engines each time it fired for a total of 800 h.p.) 
#14
General Discussion / Re: carburetor for 29 U & 30 U
September 21, 2015, 09:00:23 AM
Original cars I found had a red rubber sealing ring between bowl and carb. Exactly the same as my wife's sealing jars! I used cork (that I can still buy in sheets of different thicknesses )from my local car parts place.
#15
General Discussion / Re: Shifting & Other Issues
September 21, 2015, 08:56:21 AM
Right angle ,no boots. They spill out of a black painted tube one after another that brings them up from the distributor which is down front.