Author Topic: Misc stuff this summer  (Read 6753 times)

frankp

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Misc stuff this summer
« on: July 04, 2014, 09:30:39 PM »
Happy Independence Day!

Interesting to read what others have been doing this summer and winter

Been working on the Ply a bit this summer and not much driving.  Currently on jack stands.

The front seat upholstery was completely worn through on the drivers side.  In taking it out, I've found that wood needs to be replaced/repaired.  Could not loosen one machine screw in the seat support to the B pillar and had to drill it out.  First time in my life the bit was exactly centered so buying a tap was not necessary.  The entire assembly is back in, but more wood work remains.

Purchased a new front mat and cut to size.  Will put in when seat is done.

The pot metal inlet on the carb broke and had to make a new line.  Chose brass this time with a copper back-up, just in case.  Also bought new springs for the carb and the hand throttle.  Plan on painting them black.  Shiny new metal looks out of place.

Purchased 5 new Firestones and tubes.  Replaces the 49 year-old Sears Allstate tires.  Two are mounted on the rims, but need some outside paint before install.  Remaining 3 are waiting on the interior paint to dry.  Interesting how much rusty the rims were.  Left rear was completely rusted while right front and spare barely had any.  They were all sandblasted at the same time and he primered for me.  Wonder if LR wasn't blasted?  Thankful to have stumbled across directions for using the rim tool a while back.

Transmission and differential oil needed changing and decided to follow the Model A boys and use 600W oil.  Had been using 85w-140.

With all the room to get underneath, there are plenty of places that could use cosmetic attention.  I remember how nice it looked after cleaning and with a fresh coat of paint.  Many miles ago.  Will see how long my enthusiasm lasts for this activity.

Safe trips everyone!
frank
frank p

racertb

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2014, 10:19:22 PM »
Hi Frank...let's see some photos of everything when done!

I'll have to look into the 600w oil for trans and rear, haven't heard of that before.  Let us know/if it makes any difference.

frankp

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 02:13:55 PM »
I will post those pics.

The label on the gear oil says it is equivalent to S.A.E. 250w.  A quart was $6 + tax at Little Dearborn, Ford only parts store in Minneapolis.  I want to see if I can tell a difference.
frank p

racertb

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 05:44:51 PM »
I have been using Valvoline 85-140, which after reading a few articles online, that may be too thin, at least for the Model A folks.  Whenever I've felt I needed to top mine off, I've been using Lucas oil stabilizer, which apparently can be used in rear ends and transmissions.

Old Man

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2014, 03:33:31 PM »
Don't use 600w. It's far too thick for our trannies and rear ends. The 85W-140 is perfect as the original manuals from Chrysler Plymouth recommended SAE 90 (which is what I have always used). I don't know why the Ford owners would use 600W as it's pretty well 'grease'. Our cars were meant to have a fluid in their driveline parts. I do use an additive called MolySlip G ,the G standing for 'gearbox'. Lucas and others make their additives and I see lots of guys using Lucas and the choice is of course yours but I would use something for easier shifting if nothing else. These Chrysler trannies and rear ends are not like GM and Ford. I know Chev owners who carry a spare axle under the rear seat because Chevs snapped axles before lunch. Our gears are made of chrome nickel inside a cast iron housing. I have taken apart several trannies over the years to replace ball bearing races for the input and output shafts. (It's a wear point in all the CPDD boxes I've seen. The shafts started to wobble after a few years and the seals and bearings needed replacing. After that they appear to never go again. At least not in our lifetime. Maybe better replacement parts now?) But every box I opened appeared to have assembled "the day before". Absolutely no wear on teeth or slop in shaft collars. To put it another way: Have you ever tried to drill a hole through one of your wrenches or ever wondered why they outlast the thousands of nuts and bolts they are used on;it's because of their hardness and forging. They are 'stamped' out of chrome nickel the same as the gears in our CPDD trannies. It's like having a 'box of wrenches' for a tranny or diff. I understand you can snap off a tooth,I don't know how we would at this stage of the game, but you won't wear them out. But 600W would be thrown out to the sides by the 'tubine effect' of the gears,both in the tranny and rear end, and only a very little would be on the gears at any moment. I would stay with the 85W-140 or use the SAE 90 high pressure gear box lube I use and an additive of your choice. This has worked for me for over 35 years.
  ps-I understand GM has really lost their mind now. They are getting away for solid metal gears for their trannies and rear ends and are making the gears out of powder. They take a metal powder and crush it under high pressure to form their gears. It's called 'sintering' and I understand my Pontiac Montana has them and it's scares the hell out of me. I'm told if you are pulling a trailer and jerking the trailer during takeoffs, you can disinegrate one of these sintered gears. Progress?           
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 03:53:21 PM by Old Man »

frankp

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2014, 07:27:08 PM »
1st a price correction, $12 per quart.

Old Man, thanks for your comments.  I have never seen specific weights for diff or trans fluid or grease, except engine oil in Plymouth literature, but I would like to.  My Instruction Book is only specific as identifying such as "Fluid Gear Lubricant," Medium Cup Grease."  These terms are from The Lubrication Chart in the middle of the Instruction Book, Fifth Edition May 1929.  At the time, they were probably very well understood.  Interestingly, the Chart specifies SAE numbers for engine oil.

The Chart does say to dilute Rear Axel and Transmission with Kerosene for winter.  The 600w may be too viscous, even in summer.

I do not understand the "turbine effect."  Say rotating individual buckets of 30w, 90w, 600w at the same rpm, I would expect the lower numbers to be thrown to the side to a greater, measurable degree than the higher.  The idea behind using high viscosity 600w was that it would "cling" to the gears.
frank p

racertb

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2014, 07:30:18 PM »
Thanks for the info Old Man...sounds like I should keep using what I've been using.

Old Man

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 04:29:05 PM »
The 'turbine effect' is the effect of the rotating gears throwing the lubricant out to the walls of the box. I have taken apart several trannies and diffs over to the years and spent a lot of time scraping the old grease off the inside walls. They used to use that kind of stuff back then but thinking has changed and looking at the scan I've included ,Chrysler,which had MUCH better engineering than any others,tried to keep the lubricants as fluid as they could. Even to adding kerosene to dilute it. I have spent many years converting the old lubricants to modern equivalents and I highly recommend you use your original manuals as display material with your vehicle and leave it at that. Right now I'm using SAE 20W-40 API/SN oil in my old stuff. They do not see Winter use so the viscosity will remain at 40 for my use in the Summer. They are the most the modern engine oils you can buy in the world and yes they are detergent. I use anything that's on sale be it Texaco or Shell etc. But I have never had a problem with the detergent removing 80 years of crud and mixing it with the crankcase and blocking oil passages. Most likely because I have had the pans off everything years ago and scraped out anything that had built up on the crankcase walls. And I change the oil every year even though I might put only 200 or 300 miles on the vehicle.  And my 6s have original outboard oil filters on them that I have found the modern equivalent cartridge for so they are changed each year. I add a 'friction modifier' that I like called Prolong made in Alberta even though all Canadian retail oils now state they have a friction modifier added already,even house brands. I HIGHLY recommend you use some make of friction modifier in addition to your oil or trannie/diff lubes. I have determined my engines and trannies/diffs are not wearing. This as I've said is in part because of the quality of the CPDD materials but I have modernized the lubricants and what's in there now is being used in 300+ horsepower engines and 4 wheel drive JEEPs. So I think my engines and drive lines think they have died and gone to heaven. ( I have noticed over the years that we Canadians have different products and nomenclatures up here. We also have better quality gasoline. I suspect because of our adverse temperatures. Our gas is changed every Spring and Fall by the retailers. Our Winter gas has benzene added to it to lighten it up for quicker starts in 0 degree weather. It's then removed to prevent pre-ignition in the Summer. There are other additives in it as well I understand. We don't have the stale gas problem every year the Americans seem to. I never change or drain any gasoline and never have. My old cars and farm equipment start in the Spring just like they were just turned off yesterday. So my point is, some of my comments may be Canadian in nature and not applicable elsewhere. Sorry.)

  ps- When I was in the R.C.A.F. I was responsible for Pratt and Whitney 9 cylinder radial engines of 1340 cubic inches. In the Canadian far north the SHELL SAE 100 aviation oil would solidify in the Winter. You haven't lived until the 1st time you've seen the dry sump pet cock opened on the engine bottom to drain out the last few dregs of hot oil on to the snow, to have it turn to a solid you can pick up in your hand!! So the 9 gallons of oil in the master tank would congeal overnight and there would be no lubrication to be sprayed on the engine parts on the next start. So we had another electrical pump that sprayed raw 80-87 gasoline from the main tanks into the oil sump. Depending on temperature we would hold the spring loaded switch ,on the instrument panel up, for so many minutes while the air cooled engine still ran at 100 C operating temperature. Then we would shut it down. Next morning I would go out and start it up and run it up to 100 C. (Bloody cold work!) Then start timing it to a graph to make sure the gasoline was burnt off. The aircraft was considered to have a 'major snag' and could not be flown until I performed the burn off. It was called 'oil dilution' and is still in use and very necessary in Canada. Very Canadian eh!               
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 04:37:34 PM by Old Man »

frankp

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2014, 04:31:38 AM »
Thanks for the explanation and the chart showing the various weights with temperature conditions.  Very helpful.

I don't know how the refiners modify gasoline for summer and winter here, but I know they do.  In Minnesota in can be 100F/37.8C to -28F/-33C in the Twin Cities.  Without changes, we to would experience real problems in winter.

Finally have all the tires mounted on the rims.  I have always put in the air then let it all out and fill again.  Supposedly lessens likely hood of tube being pinched.  Is there a better method of inflation after installation?

Will be prepping and painting the rims and it will almost be time for a drive.
frank p

racertb

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 05:20:17 PM »
Can't wait to see the finished product!

PatrickSmith

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 06:54:44 PM »
Summer of fun! 1931 Plymouth PA main bearing, clutch, rear trans seal, parking brake, rear axle seals, and brake drum overhaul.
Once the Arizona temps started creeping above 95 daily I decided to take on some needed major mechanical work on my car.
 
I started by doing a complete teardown from the rear of the block to the rear axle. I replaced the rear main seal with a modern neoprene seal; install a new clutch plate, media blasted the bell housing, drive shaft, Trans, and every part I could fit in the box. New gaskets and seals to every part as I went along. Itís been a major project but once sheís on the road I believe it will all be worth the efforts.

One bit of saving grace is a family friend with a machine shop. He has allowed me to spend many hours using his shop on weekends and learning machine work along the way. Iím not wealthy so his guidance has helped me keep the cost to cents on the dollar.

Months ago I posted to a few forums that I was searching for brake drums (11í X 1.5Ē) for my car. I received no replies but continued day after day with EBay, Hemmingís, Craigslist (Nationally) and every website I could find.

Over the years all four of my drums had been turned to the point that they were three times over the limit for wall thickness. Not to mention the fact that when she was pulled from the family farm she was buried to the axle in the dirt and mud. At some point in the past the wheel studs were replaced and welded inside the drum.

Finally after some research I found the Model A Ford front drums were a near perfect match for size and width.
I removed the center hubs from my Plymouth drums and Machined the center of the Model A drums to accept the Plymouth hubs and fit the two together. New wheel studs were purchased (back to original size) as well. Shoes have been resurfaced with the softest material I could find; media blasted and repainted the backing plates.

Itís been a long summer with many long days invested on the weekends but soon she will be ready to hit the road once the temps get down to a bearable degree.  I have documented all my work with pictures in particular the brake drum process and will post in the future. I canít imagine Iím the only one who has had such a hard time replacing the drums.

chetbrz

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 02:12:24 AM »
Nice work Pat,  will look forward to seeing the pictures of the drums.  I think this is a common issue for our old cars and it sounds like you have come up with an alternative fix.

Tks for the post,  Chet..
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frankp

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 03:18:38 PM »
Good for you Patrick!  Your investment will definitely be a plus, down the road.  As Chet said, the inter change info is invaluable.

My progress has been frustratingly slow.  Now at the point of trying to get the top coat on the rims, but will be gone for about a week, so will see how much progress is made today.

Talk about real fun - being there for Dave's start-up!  Reminded me of the time I was able to get mine started, many decades ago - what a thrill.
frank p

frankp

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2014, 05:14:05 AM »
Finally have all tires mounted and the rear back on the ground.  Painted the transmission shift assembly and hand brake.  Re-worked battery box cover.  Want to clean front end a bit more before taking off the stands and going for a drive.  (Dave is making tremendous progress with his car)
frank p

29plycoop

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Re: Misc stuff this summer
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2014, 05:51:19 AM »
all most done. Keep up the good work and post pics. They give everyone ideas.
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