28Q29U Plymouth Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: kimmc on February 21, 2013, 08:08:02 PM

Title: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 21, 2013, 08:08:02 PM
I've taken my '29 engine (original) to a rebuilder.  I believe it to be in good condition (it still turns over easily), has about 60K miles on it, but hasn't been run since the 50's.  I was thinking about installing inserts until I read the two threads on this forum about babbitt vs. inserts.  Now I'm leaning towards staying with the babbitt.  And, maybe the babbitt bearings in it don't need replacement.  Anyhow, I'm looking for guidance from all of you with experience (or opinion) regarding rebuilding these early engines.  I just plan to drive mine occasionally just for the enjoyment; I'm not trying to build a show car or a daily driver.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks.  Kim
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: 29plycoop on February 21, 2013, 11:27:56 PM
Kim - Last year had my engine rebuilt and went with his recommendation to stay with Babbett. He has been in the rebuild business many years and has rebuilt many of the vintage four cylinder engines.  He had to send it to Illinois (about 50 mi. away) then sent it back to him to finish the machine work. It turned out very well. The valves came from Egge Machine on line.The replacement valves were expensive as they were in short supply but all went well. They had the pistons also.  They also have just about everything else you need.  Good luck with your rebuild. - Rich
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 21, 2013, 11:38:37 PM
Hi Rich.  I talked to the rebuilder today; I'm going to pick the engine up this afternoon and bring it home.  I can do the preliminary disassembly rather than pay for that.  And there are several "old timers" around my area that have offered to help me assess the engine, babbitts, block, head, valves, etc.  I will be more comfortable with the "go slow and let's check it out" approach.  Besides, I still like to learn from others with experience.  So, that is the new plan...open it up, check the condition of everything, and then decide what I need to do (and not do).  Thanks for the info in your post.  I will continue to post my progress with my engine.  Kim
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: Gary 30U on February 22, 2013, 07:44:42 AM
Kim, I think your really smart to go with the original babbits. I know a fellow here locally that had the inserts but in and before they were done he had a fortune in just the engine.

If it was me the less you have to mess with on the engine for just an occasional drive is just greatl.

Wishing you the best.

Gary R., Happy Motoring
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 22, 2013, 08:09:02 AM
Yes, Gary.  This is what I am hearing and reading...stick with the babbitts.  I was nervous about doing something irreversible to the engine.  At this point I don't know if it even needs to be re-babbitted.  So I need to check that out first.  I picked up the engine this afternoon and it is tucked away in the shop.  Thanks for the reply.  Kim
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 23, 2013, 09:22:53 AM
My '29 engine is back home...no work done to it.  I'll start on it myself with help from some friends.  I think we will be able to figure out what needs to be done.  I am hoping that everything is good.  It was last run in 1957.  But it been kept lubricated so it turns over freely.  Still, I have my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: frankp on February 23, 2013, 04:14:22 PM
I like your engine dolly.  Beats the heck out of the little red wagon I used and safer, too.

It will be interesting to hear what internals you decide to replace.  My 1st time, just the babbitt and the rings.  A 2nd time was required when a piston skirt disintegrated.

frank
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 23, 2013, 07:10:55 PM
Hi Frank.  Yeah, I was looking around the internet for engine dollies; some you build and some you buy.  I wanted something cheap with casters; seems I'm always re-arranging things in the shop so I didn't want an engine on a stand I couldn't move.  I was going to build one but then looked at my plan and thought "I've seen those!"  At Harbor Freight they sell furniture dollies like the one in the picture for about $20.  I've got V8s and transmissions on them.  I've only had one that had some weak wood that I reinforced.  And you can't beat the price.  Thanks for the feedback.  Kim
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: 29plycoop on February 24, 2013, 01:30:53 AM
Enjoy the engine project. Mine started out with a compression test and real quick found one cylinder much lower then all others.   It was a running engine before I started but after warming up it would smoke allot.  As it turned out that piston had a crack across the top along a manufacturing flaw.  All the cylinders were bored and new pistons installed during the rebuild.  (kept the old pistons if anyone may need one)  There may be a couple sets of new rings also if needed. The piston suppier furnished a set to match the pistons.  Seems as though once you start into checking things out it can be a slippry slop.  One thing leads to another,  but as long as it is apart, that the time to do it.  At least I have the piece of mind that it will go reliably for a long time. Good luck with your rebuild. Sounds like you have some good help to get it done. - Rich   
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 24, 2013, 03:36:35 AM
Hi Rich.  I am hoping for the best when I get into the engine.  But that won't happen for at least 2+ weeks.  I don't want to get too many projects going at once.  That said however, I would like to make progress on several things at a time; while something may have to sit and wait for whatever reason, I'd like to still be making progress somewhere else.  I don't have forever to complete this adventure!  Thanks for the post.  Kim
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: 1930 on February 24, 2013, 04:50:24 AM
My '29 engine is back home...no work done to it.  I'll start on it myself with help from some friends.  I think we will be able to figure out what needs to be done.  I am hoping that everything is good.  It was last run in 1957.  But it been kept lubricated so it turns over freely.  Still, I have my fingers crossed.
I am curious what are the cons people have experienced ( besides the cost ) with machining these engines for removable inserts, sounds like people are apposed to it but I am wondering for what reasons?
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: kimmc on February 24, 2013, 07:59:45 PM
Hi 1930.  I just searched "inserts" on this forum.  There are a couple of different threads of discussion about the pros and cons of converting the engine to inserts.  Generally, the consensus seemed to be to retain the babbitts for cars that will just be driven occasionally for pleasure.  At least that's what i got out it.  Check it out.
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: 1930 on February 24, 2013, 11:45:57 PM
Thanks, will do
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: 1930 on February 24, 2013, 11:47:28 PM
Dosent work for me, I type inserts in the search box and it shows me on page and all of those posts are found within this thread
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: SDGlenn on February 25, 2013, 05:44:20 AM
Hey 1930, I typed in rod bearings and got a list of what you want.  The best one think is (Engine Rebuild info on my 29 Ply "U"  by 29plycoop , in 2009 I think it was.) He broke it down to cost, etc.  \

later,
sdglenn
Title: Re: an engine question...
Post by: Old Man on February 26, 2013, 06:10:54 PM
I'm starting to forget now but I think you have Stellite inserts for valve seats. These are the hardened seats that Chrysler put in all their engines to stop seat errossion because there was no lead in gas in those days. They kept it up forever I believe. However if you have hardened seats in the block DO NOT try to grind them with anything steel. They are equivalent to  the steel of wrenches or sockets. You will just dull your steel device. They were ground with beveled stones on a device that straddled the engine when the hood was removed. Mostly they are in good condition and just need to be scrapped carefully to remove any carbon.
   Valves; If you have a good engine repair shop in your area they should be able to go through the 'books' and find new hardened valves that will do for your '29 and be a LOT cheaper and BETTER than any NOS. They may have to be shortened on a lathe and have a new groove cut in them for the keeper. But a good 'old' repair shop can do this. I've had it done. The valves for a 6 cylinder Plymouth turned out to be the same as 1958 Chev 283 ci. V-8 exhaust valves. $5 a piece. All the valves,intake and exhaust, on early sixes are the same so it was 12 X $5 plus $30 to cut and regroove for the keepers. You may want to go this way.