Author Topic: 29 Build Thread  (Read 8791 times)

chetbrz

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29 Build Thread
« on: October 26, 2016, 11:42:05 PM »
Well I have put the Title Problem behind me and have now started on the real work.  The Car.

The main issue I have with this car is the rotting internal wood structure and then everything else.  The roof of the car is one slab of plywood so no real body integrity.  My plan is to repair or reframe this car as close to original construction as humanly possible and as well as my carpentry & mechanical skills will allow.  I guess my first step is to get this car on a level plane and assess the workload.

The good news is that my garage floor is in excellent shape for the task at hand.  I jacked the frame up on four identical jack stands.  Even though the floor is perfectly level I did have to raise the back jack stands up one additional notch to get the car on a level plane ?  I am not sure if this is a problem but I think not.  Any comments would be appreciated. 





The body skins are horribly aligned. As an example.., Sitting on the jack stands my driver side door doesn't want to close for a number of reasons including the center post position.  I will be removing all the interior covering to reveal what's left of the original frame.  Will post pictures as the work progresses.

See Below the tip of the iceberg:








« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 12:07:28 AM by chetbrz »
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Jim Yergin

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 04:40:19 PM »
Chet,
I will be looking forward to seeing your progress. Thanks for posting.
Jim Yergin

frankp

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 12:20:12 AM »
Chet,

Good the title issue is in the can.

Like Jim Y, I too look forward to all you discover and your approach.  More than willing to offer suggestions along the way; good, bad, and terrible.  Did you place your level on the bottom of the frame?  frame probably slopes upward towards the rear?

frank
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chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 04:18:11 AM »
Hi Jim, Its been awhile I hope things are going well for you.  Frank I would appreciate any help or suggestions.

I spent the day stripping out the interior of the car to get a better idea of what I am up against.  As I pealed back the onion the results weren't encouraging.  There was very little original wood framing left.  Nothing in the roof was original and little of the floor is original either.





My plan at the moment is to start in the back and work toward the front.  I have a pretty good idea of what pieces are missing and if I can scrape up half of a structural piece I can create a full duplicate.  I have been collecting info for the past number of years so at the moment even though things look daunting I am feeling pretty confident.  We will see...  :-\



« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 05:07:25 AM by chetbrz »
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chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 04:40:01 PM »
Just so you don't think I am completely insane:

I am using the 1926-1932 (150 page) Fisher Body Service Manual as a guide for my project.



The theory and practical application is the same, of course the dimensions of the pieces will vary but the techniques for assembly and repair are solid.

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frankp

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2016, 06:20:01 PM »
Great guide.  Was the Fisher body wider than Hayes?  7 passengers in mine would be a bit personal.
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chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2016, 07:20:35 PM »
Great guide.  Was the Fisher body wider than Hayes?  7 passengers in mine would be a bit personal.

Good question, Yes the guide book is extremely detailed showing wood joining types, techniques, and repair processes across all body types from coupe to 4 door sedans it even includes banging out dents in the metal skins.   Of course dimensionally incorrect for our cars but the structural elements are exactly correct in number and types of support components.   Without this book it would be all guess work with it I can now understand and recreate the structure using what is left of the old, along with a better understand of what should exist.  It's like replacing a wall of a building once you understand the construction technique along with the remains of the existing wall.  To me this all seems to make sense.  We'll see.
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Des28Qau

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2016, 11:43:00 AM »
Hi Chet.
 I enjoy watching and reading the progress of yours and others resto's , issues , remedies and tips.
One thing which may or may not be an issue, is that the chassis is designed to and dose flex a little .
  " Sitting on the jack stands my driver side door doesn't want to close for a number of reasons ".
When on 4 wheels the weight is over the 8 spring mounts. When on the stands ( nearer the centre ) the chassis flexes and will be higher in the centre compaired to the ends than when supported by the springs . You may consider when it comes to final alignments to have car is on wheels.
Good luck & I look forward to following the progress .
Regards Des.
Des

chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2016, 03:13:15 PM »
Hi Chet.
 I enjoy watching and reading the progress of yours and others resto's , issues , remedies and tips.
One thing which may or may not be an issue, is that the chassis is designed to and dose flex a little .
  " Sitting on the jack stands my driver side door doesn't want to close for a number of reasons ".
When on 4 wheels the weight is over the 8 spring mounts. When on the stands ( nearer the centre ) the chassis flexes and will be higher in the centre compaired to the ends than when supported by the springs . You may consider when it comes to final alignments to have car is on wheels.
Good luck & I look forward to following the progress .
Regards Des.

Hi Des,  That's an excellent observation and analysis.  I'll be sure to do the suspension work prior to the final reassembly of the body.  This new observation will change my game plan a bit.  I guess before doing any body repair I should address the suspension.  My car seemed to lean to the driver's side even without anyone in it.  The leaf springs need to be repaired and re-arched.  I have a good spring shop near me so I will have to shift from body work to suspension.

Many Thanks for posting,  Chet...
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Articifer Tom

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2016, 10:57:32 PM »
Take a careful look at your shackles . I had a broken spring that wore the Tryon brand hangers egged on the end dropping driver side 3/16"  . Just reversing hangers holders and replacing spring corrected . Also DBC website has a list of all arch measurements of Dodge springs ,by physical sizes may match to other Mopars . If nothing else both sides should be the same .

chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 04:08:46 AM »
Take a careful look at your shackles . I had a broken spring that wore the Tryon brand hangers egged on the end dropping driver side 3/16"  . Just reversing hangers holders and replacing spring corrected . Also DBC website has a list of all arch measurements of Dodge springs ,by physical sizes may match to other Mopars . If nothing else both sides should be the same .

OK Tom, thanks for the tip. I will be checking into all this over the next couple of days.  Hopefully be able to find some specs on 29 Plymouth suspension.  My car seems to lean forward so I think I have more issues with the front than the back.  If I am going to start in this area I will probably be addressing all the steering components also.   

Cheers,  Chet...
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chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 01:39:12 AM »
Time to shift Gears:

I found a company that will remanufacture my front springs.  The Plymouth Part Number is 43606 which fits all cars before Y-097-CR.   It is a 9 leaf spring assembly.  The company is; Eaton Detroit Spring Co.  I decided to replace the front with new springs because the front sits low and also after 80 years of carrying the motor weight I figure it is time for a change.  I will probably disassemble and clean the rear springs but they seem to be up to the task.



Since I have the roof removed I need to remove the steering wheel so that I can repair it.  If any one has any words of wisdom they would be greatly appreciated.
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westaus29

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2016, 03:27:53 PM »
Hi Chet, when I first started working on my 29U I used more enthusiasm than skill and rapidly learned that the steering column is soft steel and easily damaged, so had to go find another one. My steering wheel boss is aluminium which binds to the shaft. Heat and penetrating oil could help but is difficult to apply and control where it is needed. When I stripped my 38 for derusting a couple of years ago I built a puller to remove the easily damaged plastic wheel and have found that it works well on the 29U wheel. It is made from two pieces of 4 x 2 pine clamped together with a 1-5/8 inch hole drilled thru the middle, and some 1/4 steel plate for strength, with a cheap, lightweight steering wheel puller for muscle. The pine is first clamped around the column under the wheel with two reinforcing plates, then the puller body is placed under the third plate and its screw is inserted thru the plate into the puller body. This upper puller assembly is then loosely bolted to the pine. Loosen the steering wheel nut level with top of shaft, insert a suitable bolt with washer in the end of the shaft to protect it, tighten the upper assembly down then progressively tighten the puller screw and apply a light hammer to the screw and it should come free with lots of penetrating oil, patience and persistence.
Pictures are attached.

chetbrz

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2016, 05:41:53 PM »
THANKS, for the info on the steering wheel puller looks like a safe way of pulling the wheel off without creating any more additional damage.  Nice idea..., I will be heading in that direction soon. 

Right now I am still dealing with the front suspension.  OK, here is the typical dilemma we face with these old Plymouths.  "Repair Part's".


The size of the leaf spring eye holes were changed in 1933.  So no existing replacement parts are available.  Since I am having the springs made I could change the eye holes to facilitate an available 1935 shackle or go the other route and have shackle parts made ?  The front leaf spring eye hole is in diameter accepting a " Bronze bushing with an ID of 9/16".  I can find Oilite Bushings x inch and drill them out to 9/16 ID.  OK not a bad fix?

The shackle side is a little more of an issue in that the shackle posts are badly worn and deformed.



I may order a 1933 front shackle to see how close it matches then I could have the rear eyelet hole drilled to that size.  The 1929 eyelet hole is 7/8"

Any suggestions ???  None of this is ever easy.
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Articifer Tom

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Re: 29 Build Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2016, 06:45:33 PM »
Chet . looks like you got a lot of it figured . Only thing a would look again ,  at is reaming out shackle hole in spring . I had same question when I adapted the Chrysler spring to my Dodge ,front oil lite was prefect fit, but rear needed bushing out and larger hole . I did not think it best to cut hardened spring so machined the surface hardened post to fit , this let the ends still hard . If your posts are totaled . Just machine new ones and surface harden .
  Was curious if on springs strap you found the manuf. number and a symbol of a keystone . If so they were probable made by Tyron Co . also, like shackles , out of Harrisburg Pa. .
                                                      tom 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 09:06:51 PM by Articifer Tom »