Author Topic: Old Gal - Still won't start  (Read 7317 times)

29UJohn

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2014, 03:13:43 AM »
I am sure some will disagree with me, but when you set the timing with a light by the instruction book, the spark will need to be advanced a little to run smoothly.  This is because the fuel in 1929 was only about 70 octane.  With even today's lowest octane, the spark will have to be advanced somewhat to run smoothly because the higher octane fuel "burns" slower.    Years ago when I first got my car I set the timing by the manual and it would barely run.  An "old timer" showed me how to set it "by ear" and got the engine ticking along smoothly. 

Otherwise, I would carefully follow the steps in the manual on pages 39-40 and review the corrective measures on pages 69-70.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 03:37:10 AM by 29UJohn »
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racertb

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2014, 07:35:27 PM »
Hey John:

Are you suggesting this advance by distributor adjustment or by acutually doing this with setting TDC slightly more advanced than what's called for?

I'm assuming the just dialing the distributor and setting it slightly more advanced than one might do (?)

Also, I've been out of town a lot lately, so I hope to get the car going this weekend.  I basically started over (again), found TDC (I hope), got the rotor pointing in the right direction, verified firing order of the plug wires, and even put in new points/condensor (again).  I'm just ready to go out and try again and hopefully get her back on the road.

Old Man

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2014, 11:44:35 PM »
I have a sinking feeling something is terribly wrong with this engine. You obviously have set the engine up correctly several times by now. It should have started even if only to run roughly. I wish I were there. There's just not a lot more that needs to be done to get one of these old engines going. They are basically a lawnmower engine times 4. Even a balky engine will fart and start and run for a couple of revs with a snort of ether up the snout. I have a terrible feeling the mechanical time between the camshaft and the crankshaft is out. It then will not matter if you time from TDC on #1 or not. The camshaft is not setting the valves to their right spots and setting the rotor and the spark to start at that point, TDC #1, will be meaningless as well. I'm kinda lost in the thread. Have you checked the fibre gear behind the cover on the front of the engine? I think you may have to take it off and check and make sure the 2 dots are adjacent to each other. If not that will be your problem. 
  However because it's a side valve engine,the valves will not "hit" the pistons like they do on a modern overhead engine when the timing belt breaks. Which is what stripping the fibre gear running the camshaft off the crankshaft in these old engine is the equivalent. So no damage done. The quickest way of finding out if this is the problem is to remove the front valve galley cover. Put #1 piston at TDC and it should have both it's valves closed. The lifters should be on the back,or downside, of their cams. If then in turning the engine by hand using the fan blades,spark plugs out, the exhaust valve should be opened on it's cam after reaching the bottom of the cylinder,then close as the piston rises to the top, and then the intake valve should open on it's cam on the next down stroke. Then they close once again as the piston rises on the compression stroke to TDC once again. As we used to say in the Forces "Suck,squeeze,bang,blow".         
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 02:43:58 AM by Old Man »

29UJohn

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2014, 04:06:26 AM »
Ted, I agree with Old Man.  When you said a while back that the engine, "made that grinding kind of noise every couple of revolutions", that concerns me.  With gas, air, compression and spark somewhat close, the engine should start even if very rough.  As previously recommended, I would remove the valve cover and plugs and have someone turn the engine through few revolutions with the hand crank while observing the valves.  Then I would check the fiber timing gear for any lost teeth.  I believe there is a  rectangular hole in the valve compartment that will allow you to see the fiber timing gear.  Have someone slowly turn the crank while you check the teeth.

To answer your timing question, yes, "..just dialing the distributor and setting it slightly more advanced than one might do." That would be counter-clockwise looking from above.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 03:00:16 PM by 29UJohn »
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racertb

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2014, 05:24:36 PM »
Thanks Old Man and John.   I'll look into that.  I have a 30U block that happened to have the valve cover off and I saw the rectangular hole John is referring too.   I want to check for spark one more time at the plugs as started to last night because it didn't look consistent, even though I'm getting a good spark from the coil wire and everything (cap, rotor, wires, etc.) is new.

racertb

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2014, 05:29:35 PM »
Also, distributor turns clockwise (looking down from above) smoothly, points opening and closing "properly", etc.  Everything APPEARS to be functioning the right way.   Again, I need to feel better about the spark getting to the plugs before I do anything else.

racertb

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2014, 03:42:17 AM »
Got the valve cover off and everything looks real clean.  Got to check out all the cam gear teeth tomorrow...the teeth I've seen so far look good.  Will look at the rest at least once tomorrow the look at valve positioning.  I'll post the results and any questions I have as soon as I can.

test100

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Re: Old Gal - Still won't start
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2014, 02:13:56 PM »
Sorry you are having so much trouble getting your engine started.  If nothing turns up and with all the time you have spent would you consider popping the head to ensure TDP and the correct operation of the engine timing.

Chet...