I was in Loss Wages on business this week and had the opportunity to meet up with P15D24 Forum Member Richard Fleetwood (forum handle RFleetwood).  Rich showed me his project car a 1950 Plymouth 2 door convertible.  Sorry that I only took one picture but the battery on my camera was done and I was lucky to snap the one below. 



The car is all there but needs a good deal of TLC.  Rich has the drive train out and intends to put in a Mopar 318 V8 with automatic transmission.  He is currently welding in new floor metal and once completed, he will be removing the body for a frame off restoration and customization.   The floor is coming out great due to Rich's excellent welding skills and he has already put in cross members to keep the body true when he pulls it off the frame.

Lots of work to be done but when finished this is going to be one sweet ride.

I know this is Off Topic for our forum but I get a big kick out of meeting others in the hobby and seeing what they are doing to keep their old Plymouths on the road.  Remember the better majority of Plymouths out there are just not good candidates for all original show queens.  But most make great drivers and most of the drivers are nice people.

Chet...

I will be in Las Vegas on business the week of August 11th.   Any member wishing to get together for a quick hello and maybe a brewski please let me know.  I have limited time but could hook up any night Monday to Thursday.  Flying in Monday and out early Friday morning.

A work in progress since September 2004 - Getting close to finish paint.


My weekend driver 1929 Plymouth U


Chet...

Just curious,

Chet...

I spent some time on the phone today with John from "The Carburetor Shop" in ELDON, MISSOURI.  We mostly talked about the Carter Bras Bowl Carburetor RT-08 found on the 29/30-U Plymouths.

Some information from a person who seemed to be extremely knowledgeable about our carburetors.

• First of all they have original RT-08s fully restored to show quality and in stock for sale and I was told that they are extremely expensive $5,000.00 each.  The reason basically is that the carburetor and its pot metal construction just didn't survive well after 79 plus years.
• It is highly unlikely to disassemble these carburetors without breaking the internal components or at least most of the internal jets & parts.
• Parts are available but pricey.  Idle & high-speed jets are in the $350.00 range per each, $50 dollars for the rebuild kit which doesn't contain the jets.
• External acceleration pump may be purchased for $1,500.00 and I was told out of 100 carburetor bodies you are lucky to find two in restorable condition.  He said that the acceleration pump didn't provide too much benefit anyway and a lot of people use the carburetor without it. 

The gentlemen I spoke with was not trying to sell me anything.   He was nice enough to pass on some information so that I could decide what I would like to do with the two I have in various states of disassembly.   Both of which are floating around in my parts washer for the last 6 months.   Basically he said that this wouldn't help much because the pot metal expands over time making it impossible to dissemble these without damaging the internal parts or the castings.   This might be a good thing to know before you mess around with your RT-08.

Of course this carburetor was used on other makes at the time like Chevy.  He prefaced the following statement by saying he loves Carter Carburetors.   But in his opinion the RT-08 was the worst carburetor Carter ever made.   He mentioned that a number of people use other carburetors like a Zenith or Tillotson. When they go to a car show after they park they will then remove their driving carb and put on a non-function highly polished Brass Bowl RT-08 just for show.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I am just reporting on my conversation with someone that is much more knowledgeable then I am on this subject.

28-Q   RJH-08
29-U   RT-08
30-U   RT-08
31-PA   DRT-08
32-PB   BB-Updraft

I hope this info helps and if not any comments would be appreciated.

I am a firm believer in the theory that if it works leave it alone.  So if your RT-08 is working then based on the above I think that you have a very expensive and rare commodity.

Chet...

A colleague of mine from Germany was here at our Virginia office this week.  He is also the proud owner of the 1927 M50 pictured below. Werner Lorenz has owned this 1927 Chrysler for approximately 20 years.   He bought the car in South Africa while on business in Johannesburg.   He states that this kind of car is very scarce in Europe and it is almost impossible to find parts for it.  Even in the States you have to be lucky to find parts. We exchanged some supplier info and spent a lot of time talking vintage WPC stuff.  Hopefully we might be able to get together again this year at Hershey in October.



Yesterday I drove my 29 to work and was able to give Werner a ride in another great WPC car built in the same era.   I believe the 1927 M50 uses the same Maxwell Engine that is in the 1928-Q Plymouth.  The only problem being is that the 27 only had hydraulic brakes fitted in the rear.  Werner was impressed with how responsively my old Plymouth stopped when needed. 

Werner drives his car frequently so if you are in Munich and see this 27 cruise by I would suspect with much certainty that it is Werner out for a casual drive.

Chet...

Info from the WPC Museum Web Site:  http://www.chryslerheritage.com/pg500products.php

1927 M 50

Engine: Year: Carline: Maxwell / Chrysler / Plymouth 4-cylinder 1927 Chrysler 50 Compression ratio raised to 4.1:1 and output was 35 bhp @ 2200. L-head, 3 main bearings Bore/Bire Range: 3.63 in. Stroke: 4.13 - 4.50 in. BHP Range: 34-38 Cylinder Block: cast iron, deep skirt Fuel System: updraft carburetor Displacement: 170 cu. in.

1929 Plymouth U Motor

Engine: Year: Carline: Plymouth 4-cylinder 1929 Plymouth U L-head, 3 main bearings Bore/Bire Range: 3.63 in. Stroke: 4.25 - 4.75 in. BHP Range: 45-65 Cylinder Block: cast iron, deep skirt Fuel System: updraft carburetor Displacement: 175 cu. in.

I drove the 29 to work today, just a couple of miles.  After the oil pressure odyssey I decided to take the old girl out for a spin after work.  I drove a good 35 miles and on the home stretch I pushed her up to 50 mph on the car's speedometer.  I sustained that speed with throttle to spare for a good 2 or 3 minutes.  Oil pressure was rock solid at 45 psi which in reality is 40 psi.  The engine remained nice and quiet with no bearing nock.  At idle she maintained 20 psi which was telling me that the pressure relief valve was closed and all that wonderful oil flow was going to my engine components.



When I got home I parked her under the shade tree in the front yard and snapped a picture.

What a great day after a very scary time.  I have to admit that Walter P. picked a very hearty engine for his Plymouth line.  After driving a good 40 miles round trip to the car show on Father's Day with minimum oil going to my engine components and a ton of bearing nock the old girl bounced back in good stride.   It just goes to show you what a great car old Walter P. built in 1929.  As an aside the wife followed me back to our rented garage and reported that I was no longer blowing smoke out of the tail pipe.

How Sweet it is,  Chet...

For the blow by blow click on the link below....



http://www.chetscoins.com/1929/photogallery/SullyShow2008/2008_Sully_plantation_car_show.htm

Chet...

This is a continuation of my Post "Any Thoughts"

Cleaning and adjusting the pressure relief valve on the 1929-U was both good & bad.  It was good to clean it but very bad to adjust it and here is why.  (Use the crude diagram below for reference)

The line, which feeds the oil gauge, is between the pump output and the pressure relief valve.  Because of this the pressure relief valve only affects the pressure of the oil going to the motor parts. The gauge reading is only affected by the valve adjustment when the valve is opened to much thus causing a dangerous drop in oil pressure to the motor parts.  My assumption is that this is the reason the Plymouth Instruction Book states "...never to adjust this device...".  The adjustment will have little affect on the gauge reading unless you completely deplete the amount of oil going to the engine bearings. 

The single eccentric in the oil pump is used to move both oil in the engine and air flow from the vacuum fuel pump.  Because of this, the total pressure out is equal to the sum of both inputs and the viscosity of the fluid.  Since the pump mixes air with the oil..., if the vacuum line is plugged up then no air is introduced to the pump and thus the pump will develop an additional 10 to 15 psi of oil pressure. (reason – air will compress at a much higher rate then oil)    Example:  Take the air out of your brake lines and they work much better.

This is exactly what the problem was with my car.   When I brought the car home it had no vacuum fuel pump and I still have not hooked it up yet.  The point being is that someone plugged the line.   Of course the last owner didn't have the problem because he had a leaky oil pump cover gasket that introduced the needed airflow.  My problem presented itself after I replaced the leaky oil cover gasket. 

After cleaning and adjusting my pressure relief valve to minimum pressure my gauge was affected by maintaining 35 psi at idle and 50 psi at run.  Good.., absolutely not.  That meant that my engine was not getting the correct pressure at low rpm and probably at high also.   My engine starts to knock when I get into the 40 to 45 mph range and while driving it to the car show on Sunday it was starting to knock between 35 to 40.  I finally discover the above problem after the show.  I drove a total of 35 miles to and fro and most likely took some life out of my bearings.   

I intend to get everything adjusted back to spec before I run the car again.  Hopefully I didn't do too much damage.  I am glad that the engine pressure stayed pretty close to the same otherwise I probably would have driven the car until I sized it up thinking that I fixed the problem.

The Plymouth manual is correct: 

NEVER ADJUST THE PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE IN YOUR OLD PLYMOUTH..

Chet...

The weather here in Virginia has been abusive in the past couple of days.  I took this week off from work to do a number of needed repairs to my 29-U. 

I installed the refurbished gas tank yesterday.  I think the fabricated Ford gas gauge looks pretty good.  Much better then the painted tin can cap that the last owner used.   It's hard to tell from the picture but the gauge is reading ¼ tank.



Well..., back to work,  Chet...

I have been having a lot of trouble with burning an excessive amount of oil.  When at idle the oil pressure reads just under 40 psi and when driving my gauge is maxed out.  The motor runs strong and was rebuilt not too many miles ago by the car's former owners.  Anyway since I was draining the coolant to replace the radiator with an original one I decided to remove the head.  My two purposes are one to inspect the pistons & cylinder walls, and the other reason is to repaint the head silver. 

With the head removed I found pristine cylinder walls with hardly noticeable edge ring.  The cylinders had oil puddled in the cylinders with a lot of black carbon on the pistons.  I cleaned up the area and decided to trouble shoot the oil pressure.



Thinking that my car's gauge was inaccurate I installed a new modern oil gauge and cranked the engine with the starter.  The gauge read 38 psi after about a half a minute of cranking.  This is the same value as my interior gauge so I guess my old gauge is correct. 

I then decided to remove the pressure relief valve assembly.   After inspection I could not push the valve in far enough to allow the port to open.  I disassembled the valve and cleaned the spring, plunger, and cylinder.   After reassembling the parts I could now push the plunger in to allow the valve to open.   I think this was my problem.  I reassembled the valve into the engine and set the pressure one turn from minimum pressure.  I cranked the engine with the starter and the pressure pumped up to 20 psi and with continued cranking would go up to 35 psi.   The pressure looks much better now then when I started. 

Once I get the motor back together I will adjust for 35 - 40 psi maximum when driving at a normal speed.  I think this should help the excess oil burning problem by allowing less oil to blow by the cylinder rings. 

What do you guys think.?  Is there anything else I should do while the head is off.?

Chet...

Gary,

I call Tom Hannaford at the Antique Auto Parts Cellar to arrange to have my front motor mount re-vulcanized.   We talked a little and he told me that he carries everything mechanical to keep the 28-30 Plymouth rolling including Kingpin sets.

I thought you might be interested:

Antique Auto Parts Cellar
PO Box 3 (6 Chauncy Street)
Weymouth , MA 02190
Telephone: 1-781-335-1579
Fax: 1-781-335-1925
email: Thecellar@then-now.com
http://www.then-now.com/

Chet...

Anyone have any tips or personal experience with changing the return spring on the 29-U starter motor.   

Chet...

I am getting the 29 U ready for the summer driving season:

Original refurbished radiator ready for installation.

I can't wait to give her a crank...

Kingston Vacuum fuel pump ready for installation:



I purchased some reproduction floor pads for the pedals and the shifter form Steel Rubber.  These are well worth the money and are excellent reproductions.   I will also redo the toe board and install repro rubber floor matting.

 

I have lots of other little things to fix like installing the new Steel Rubber windshield molding and fixing the broken passenger side window.  I hope to be back on the road before Father's Day.  I am excited about getting the old girl out on the open road again in a little better condition then she was the year before.

Chet...

Chris,

There is a 29 Plymouth 2 door sedan on eBay and the interior pictures show a pouch on the passenger side only.    The car looks like an older restoration but looks pretty true to form.  I will check my car tonight on the way home.  I think there are pouches on the rear doors   Who knows if my interior is original the only thing I know for sure is that it appears to be leatherette and very old.

Chet...

No original Plymouth parts were modified to make this work.



Please see the link for the project blow by blow... http://www.chetscoins.com/1929/Work_Files/GasTank.htm

Cheers,  Chet...

Attached is an article from a back issue of "Skinned Knuckles Magazine".  Jim Yergin made a copy and sent it to me. 

Tks Jim.

It found it very interesting so I thought that it was worth posting.

Enjoy...   

Chet...

Chris,

It's been close to two weeks and I believe you said you would be picking up your new old car soon.  Maybe you will have it home for the up coming weekend.   Well in any event keep us posted. 

Chet...

Jim Yergin recently sent me an article, which he ran across in the Skinned Knuckles Magazine, which talked about wooden automobile wheels.  What I found interesting was the section concerning fixing loose or squeaky spokes.   

The article implied that back in day when our cars were new it was recommended to wash them often so as to allow the wood wheels to swell and tighten, especially if you lived in a dry climate.  The urban legend was mentioned that if your spokes were loose it was best to park the car in a shallow stream for the night to swell the wood wheels, which would tighten the spokes.  Also a product called Chair-Lock was mentioned which is a chemical composition used to swell woods for the purpose of tightening doweled joins without the use of glue.

What say ye..,  Any comments or experiences.    This seems to make sense to me.

Maybe not original but it looks A-OK and you can't beat the price.



Chet...

Link to the project... http://www.chetscoins.com/1929/Work_Files/Running%20Board%20Redo.htm

On March 4th this Web Forum will start its second year.   As a tribute to those who have been active posters in the first year of this Forum, I will be creating a New Member Status equal to "Founding Member" The changes will be made starting now and completing no later then March 4th.

Qualification for "Founding Member" status:

Member must have been a member for 30 days prior to March 4th 2008.
Member will have achieved Full Member Status by March 4th 2008.
Member has been active in the past 90 days prior to March 4th 2008.

This unique member status will remain in affect as long as this Forum is in operation as a tribute to those who helped make this first year a success.  My sincere thanks to all participating members who are helping to make this a place to share information concerning our unique cars.

Keep them rolling,        Chet...

FORUM PURPOSE:

This forum was created for the 1928 Model Q, 1929 Model U, and 1930-U Plymouths.  Chrysler, Dodge, & DeSoto 1924 to 1930 are also welcome.  These early Plymouths and Chryslers are very similar in construction with many similarities in parts.  Actually after 75+ years.., any year noted could contain any combination or mixture of parts.   Since there are not a whole lot of these models around with even fewer experts on their repair and maintenance, I thought that having a place to share issues, problems, and practical information about these cars would be a big help.

This forum is FREE and has no opinion on how you modify your car and has no affiliation with an organized antique car club.  The purpose here is to freely share information and maintenance tips about these early Plymouths & Chryslers.  Keeping these wonderful and extraordinary cars running is this web site's first priority.  You alone are left to be the judge of your car.