I might have the opportunity to pick up a good PA engine. I was just curious if anybody knew if the PA block would bolt up to a Model U bell housing. If so I might take the block just to have as a spare incase my engine went south.
Chet...
Chet-- I am showing different part numbers between the two years with the housing and block (Master Parts Catalog). The thing is, the New Finer Plymouth was introduced in mid 1930. So, were the earlier 1930 parts the same as the '29s? The PA had a 196 cid (I think), our's the 175 cid. The manual shows no serial number cut-off for the U block which is strange, I wouldnt chance it unless you can tell the spare is a 175. Personally, I would pass on it.
Thanks Doug, Good point,
You are correct the PA could have a different block and not necessarily a bolt up although my engine gasket kit can be used for both engines the 175 & the 196 with some added in additional gaskets for water pump, etc. I believe the block & the head are the same ??? Just a different stroke. But that doesn't mean that the bell housing is a clean bolt up. The casting might have changed a bit with the PA & PB.
PB... 196 3-5/8 x 4-3/4
PA... 196 3-5/8 x 4-3/4
30-U 196 3-5/8 x 4-3/4
29-U 175 3-5/8 x 4-1/4
I wish I could see them side by side ?
Chet...
My early 30U has a PB engin in it. I have posted pictures of it on here before asking about it. You can look at it nest to any other and can't tell the diffrence but it has a pb ser#, So I would say a pa would go right in
I went back and looked, In the Photo gallery the pictures are there
This is great as it turns out the engine is a new style U from a 1930 with the water pump. I am going to go for it.
Thanks all, Chet...
Quote from: Doug on August 19, 2009, 05:52:15 PM
I went back and looked, In the Photo gallery the pictures are there
Doug,
I looked at your pictures and one question comes to mind? The PB engine used a mechanical fuel pump and mechanical water pump. Were these devices removed and plugged to make the PB engine function like the basic 29 U engine ???
Chet...
I don't know. That is whatI was trying to find out when I first posted about it. The engin has been in the car for over 30 years. I can't trace it back any farther. The ser# starts with PB. The water pump is no problem to take of or put on one of these engins. the fule pump is a diffrent story. It looks like there should be a place in the block for the pump to go. I haven't seen one up close to tell.
Doug,
According to Tod Fitch's web site: A great source for first generation.
Quote:
There were many running changes during production of the 30-U. Early production had a vacuum tank fuel pump. This changed to a mechanical fuel pump and a water pump was added. There were three different types of wire wheels used with three different bolt patterns. Early wood wheels were de-mountable rims while the later wood wheels were removable.
See Link: http://www.ply33.com/Models/30-U/
Doug from the serial number info on the 30U page or the other modals you can probably calculate when your motor was cut into the production line. There is a spec for the PA & PB all the way through the first 10 years of Plymouth production.
Chet...
Thanks Chet. I have read all of that. My frame ser# is an early 30U, with vacum pump, no water pump, demountabel wood spoke wheels rectangel back glass so on. the engine has a pb ser# but next to any pictures looks just like an early U, I haven't seen a late U in person. as far as that goes I haven't seen any other early plymouths in person. When I go to a car show around here I am the only one. And most people try to tell my this is an A model ford that must have the wrong grill on it. I get a big laugh cause I know they don't know. I have pictures from the last owner that pretty much proves this car has been this way a long time.
Doug,
The mechanical fuel pump was cut into the 196 block during the manufacturing of the 30U. The engine I am picking up is a later U motor serial number probably the last two or three months of the 30U production run and it has a mechanical fuel pump. Certainly a PA or PB engine would have a mechanical fuel pump. It sounds to me that your engine is an early 30U motor which had the water pump but didn't have the fuel pump added yet. I can't imagine why it has PB stamped on the block ????. It sounds like the correct motor with a misrepresented PB serial number.
My 2 cents...
I have thought of that. But why would someone stamp a pb ser# on a U block. I have looked all over and found no ansewers. Thats the real bad thing about these cars, They are so old anyone that new anything about them is gone
I picked this motor up from a gentleman in Michigan who purchased a 31 Plymouth, which was being restored, but he bought the car to hotrod so he is selling off all the mechanical parts he doesn't need. The car came to him with a completely rebuilt drive train and a second completely rebuilt motor and drive train from a 30-U, the engine never fired. I purchased the 30-U drive train. I asked him once he has sorted out what he doesn't want both from the parts received and the car that he would post the items for sale on this web forum.
Doug this motor is a 30-U engine.
It has the fuel pump and water pump. Serial# prefixed with a U.
(http://www.chetscoins.com/1929/images/30U_Motor_01.jpg)
(http://www.chetscoins.com/1929/images/30U_Motor_02.jpg)
(http://www.chetscoins.com/1929/images/30U_Motor_03.jpg)
If anyone is interested I will be selling off the new style Bell housing and transmission once I check the numbers against the Plymouth parts book.
Chet...
Chet, did you get the motor mounts that go on the bell housing? I have looked at the pictures and you can see mine. Still has the pb ser#. I am not concerned about it. I would just like to know what happened That got it this way.
Chet-- I hope the car to be rodded had a VERY bad, rusty body. It REALLY pisses me off when these chuckleheads take a perfectly good antique and destroy it.
Quote from: Doug on August 24, 2009, 03:06:35 PM
Chet, did you get the motor mounts that go on the bell housing? I have looked at the pictures and you can see mine. Still has the pb ser#. I am not concerned about it. I would just like to know what happened That got it this way.
The transmission and bell housing appear to be from a PA or PB in that the motor mount is on the transmission not the bell housing. That might make sense since the car it was intended for is a 31 Plymouth. These early Plymouth parts have a tendency to find a home just about anywhere. On my 29 the bell housing bolts directly to the frame.
Chet...
Quote from: 29 doUg on August 24, 2009, 10:51:10 PM
Chet-- I hope the car to be rodded had a VERY bad, rusty body. It REALLY pisses me off when these chuckleheads take a perfectly good antique and destroy it.
Doug,
It may better that you don't know. The car will be an award winner for sure but it may not take any awards at a POC meet. Doug I feel the same way you do but I don't get mad I just try to save as many old parts as I can. I would prefer that if these parts are going to be removed (and they will, no matter what we think) that they go to a Plymouth Restoration in need of them. It's very hard to change people's attitudes toward things and in the long run it will still be another Plymouth back out on the road.
Chet...