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30-U Carter Carburetor Question

Started by 29UJohn, January 17, 2013, 09:39:57 PM

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29UJohn

Does anyone have an original 1930-U Plymouth Carter Carburetor?  I was wondering what type it was.
Did the 30-U carburetor have the long slender accelerator pump or the short one?  My master parts book shows a picture of a carb with a long slender pump, but the parts list shows a short pump.
John
1929U 4 Dr

Tinkeys

Hi John!
My 30u when I acquired it had been on blocks for 36 years and had never had a full restoration, it did have a carter short accelerator pump still doesn't mean it wasn't replaced at some time , this car also is of the late 30U production and was built in Canada as export R/hand drive also has oval rear window , the rest I have seen in Australia are rectangle windows.

frankp

Hi John,
I don't know, I'm guessing your looking at Plate 37, my copy of the April 1, 1934 Master Parts List.  For those not having a copy, this shows several part #'s for this carb.  Some are exclusive Plymouth P/N, most are Carter.

Carb (export only)-U after Y-082-LR U S built, 30-U up to U-237404   **131-SA
Carb..........................................................30-U up to U-225814     306203
Carb...........................................30-U after engine No. U-225814   **156-S
Carb (export only)-30-U after engine No. U-237407........................   **158-S
Carb(RHD only).......................................30-U up to No. U-239017    306204
Carb(RHD only)..............................30-U after engine No. U-239017   **157-S

**Carter number.

I also have copies of 3 CARTER CARBURETOR CORP book pages, one of which says

Form 4304 Replacing Form 4246  PLYMOUTH  "30-U" - 1930-31   Carbureter 156S, Revised 1932

This drawing is the "short" accelerating pump.  The diagrams of the 130S-130SA (1929-30) and D-209S (1931) also shows a short pump.

It appears Chrysler was having fun with folks like us who are attempting to get these things period correct.  At this date, I'm not sure any one alive and coherent really knows for sure!  Not a slam- just who knows what was what 83 odd years hence now-a-days??

frank

I'm guessing the 306203 & 306204 are "long vertical" pump, but don't really know.
frank p

Tinkeys

If I had to take a guess either long or short would be ok , I'm thinking early production had long pump and later had short !
Cheers Tony

chetbrz

Quote from: frankp on January 18, 2013, 07:57:20 PM

It appears Chrysler was having fun with folks like us who are attempting to get these things period correct.  At this date, I'm not sure any one alive and coherent really knows for sure!  Not a slam- just who knows what was what 83 odd years hence now-a-days??

frank

I'm guessing the 306203 & 306204 are "long vertical" pump, but don't really know.

Frank,

I would think that Chrysler in 29 and up was dealing with a supply chain that was constantly changing and improving on its products.  Carter didn't make parts exclusively for the Walter P cars but for Chevy and others.   We are now conditioned for exclusive manufacture but back in the day an auto maker integrated a ton of "off the shelf products" to build a car.   The inconsistencies you are complaining about are probably another reason why large auto makers started to purchase part suppliers to standardize their supply chain in the 20's and 30's.   I think Ford started the trend.

Just my 2 cents...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

#5
This is a scan from the Master Parts List for 1934 and back. The book calls it a 130S/130SA and prices it at $16. My own experience is that this is the 'normal' carb on any original 30Us I've seen and the accelerator pump has always been the 'long' one.  

frankp

Please see attached - no complaining - just challenging.  frank
frank p

chetbrz

Hay Frank,

Nice document on the carter carb.  Would you mind if I posted it in the Tech Area of this web site.

Chet...
http://www.1948Plymouth.info           Web Master - Forum Administrator - AACA member

Old Man

OK I goofed. I went back to the Master Parts List and looked up the 'exploded view' of the parts for the different carbs. The 'long' accelerator pump carb is a Model 130S/SA. The 'short' stubby accelerator pump carb is a 156S. BUT with that said, I still maintain that an original 30U had the 130 style with the long pump and the '31 PAs had the 156 style with the short pump. I had a barn fresh untouched '31 PA 6 wire wheel De Luxe sedan for the better part of 15 years and it had the 156 'stubby' pump style on it. I think the date on the Carter sheet has to be taken with a grain of salt because the PAs were called both 1930 and 1931 by Chrysler originally and several coffee table books today. But if I was to lift the hood on a 30U and see the short pump carb on it I would say that the car had a PA carb and vice versa. However Chrysler in those first years did not throw anything away and late 30Us COULD have an early '31 PA carb on it from factory. The flange dimensions are the same. (But the '31 PA had a huge vertical air cleaner that went up the firewall from the underhung carb.) I would just want the owner to prove that the carb hasn't been changed and Chrysler put it on without the unique PA air cleaner. Although who's to know what happened in the the car's first 20 or 30 years. Aren't we all confused now?   

frankp

Sure Chet, go ahead and post it there.

Maybe it would be helpful to identify what number is cast in the carb body. e.g. I believe an RT-08 can be configured to a Carter 130S or 130SA for a 29U, which is on my engine.  The DRT-08 to a 209S (209-S) and maybe the 210-S as listed in Master Parts list for a PA.

frank

frank p

ehenin

My Carter Form 1039 dated September, 1929 for the Plymouth models RTO8-130S and SA shows pump assembly part number 49-38S. My Carter Form 1065 dated July, 1930 for the Plymouth model RTO8-156SR shows pump assembly part number 49-38S.  This is the same part number for both and it is drawn as a short pump in both cases.

ehenin

Form 1065 also states that RTO8-156SR went into production on June 6, 1930, on serial number 1,521,181.

ehenin

Form 1039 states that RTO8-130SA went into production in September 1929, superseding the 130S. The two units are alike except that a compensating air valve has been added to choking device in the later series.

Crazydave

Quote from: Tinkeys on January 19, 2013, 06:28:17 AM
If I had to take a guess either long or short would be ok , I'm thinking early production had long pump and later had short !
Cheers Tony

I'm on board with this! My 29 sedan has the long pump... the parts I got from another 29 (coupe) has a short.... .but I'm good with either