28Q29U Plymouth Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: chetbrz on October 26, 2016, 11:42:05 PM

Title: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 26, 2016, 11:42:05 PM
Well I have put the Title Problem behind me and have now started on the real work.  The Car.

The main issue I have with this car is the rotting internal wood structure and then everything else.  The roof of the car is one slab of plywood so no real body integrity.  My plan is to repair or reframe this car as close to original construction as humanly possible and as well as my carpentry & mechanical skills will allow.  I guess my first step is to get this car on a level plane and assess the workload.

The good news is that my garage floor is in excellent shape for the task at hand.  I jacked the frame up on four identical jack stands.  Even though the floor is perfectly level I did have to raise the back jack stands up one additional notch to get the car on a level plane ?  I am not sure if this is a problem but I think not.  Any comments would be appreciated. 

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_001)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_002)

The body skins are horribly aligned. As an example.., Sitting on the jack stands my driver side door doesn't want to close for a number of reasons including the center post position.  I will be removing all the interior covering to reveal what's left of the original frame.  Will post pictures as the work progresses.

See Below the tip of the iceberg:

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_003)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_004)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_005)


Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Jim Yergin on October 27, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
Chet,
I will be looking forward to seeing your progress. Thanks for posting.
Jim Yergin
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on October 28, 2016, 12:20:12 AM
Chet,

Good the title issue is in the can.

Like Jim Y, I too look forward to all you discover and your approach.  More than willing to offer suggestions along the way; good, bad, and terrible.  Did you place your level on the bottom of the frame?  frame probably slopes upward towards the rear?

frank
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 28, 2016, 04:18:11 AM
Hi Jim, Its been awhile I hope things are going well for you.  Frank I would appreciate any help or suggestions.

I spent the day stripping out the interior of the car to get a better idea of what I am up against.  As I pealed back the onion the results weren't encouraging.  There was very little original wood framing left.  Nothing in the roof was original and little of the floor is original either.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_006)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_007)

My plan at the moment is to start in the back and work toward the front.  I have a pretty good idea of what pieces are missing and if I can scrape up half of a structural piece I can create a full duplicate.  I have been collecting info for the past number of years so at the moment even though things look daunting I am feeling pretty confident.  We will see...  :-\

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_008)

Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 28, 2016, 04:40:01 PM
Just so you don't think I am completely insane:

I am using the 1926-1932 (150 page) Fisher Body Service Manual as a guide for my project.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame01)

The theory and practical application is the same, of course the dimensions of the pieces will vary but the techniques for assembly and repair are solid.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame02)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on October 29, 2016, 06:20:01 PM
Great guide.  Was the Fisher body wider than Hayes?  7 passengers in mine would be a bit personal.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 29, 2016, 07:20:35 PM
Great guide.  Was the Fisher body wider than Hayes?  7 passengers in mine would be a bit personal.

Good question, Yes the guide book is extremely detailed showing wood joining types, techniques, and repair processes across all body types from coupe to 4 door sedans it even includes banging out dents in the metal skins.   Of course dimensionally incorrect for our cars but the structural elements are exactly correct in number and types of support components.   Without this book it would be all guess work with it I can now understand and recreate the structure using what is left of the old, along with a better understand of what should exist.  It's like replacing a wall of a building once you understand the construction technique along with the remains of the existing wall.  To me this all seems to make sense.  We'll see.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Des28Qau on October 30, 2016, 11:43:00 AM
Hi Chet.
 I enjoy watching and reading the progress of yours and others resto's , issues , remedies and tips.
One thing which may or may not be an issue, is that the chassis is designed to and dose flex a little .
  " Sitting on the jack stands my driver side door doesn't want to close for a number of reasons ".
When on 4 wheels the weight is over the 8 spring mounts. When on the stands ( nearer the centre ) the chassis flexes and will be higher in the centre compaired to the ends than when supported by the springs . You may consider when it comes to final alignments to have car is on wheels.
Good luck & I look forward to following the progress .
Regards Des.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 30, 2016, 03:13:15 PM
Hi Chet.
 I enjoy watching and reading the progress of yours and others resto's , issues , remedies and tips.
One thing which may or may not be an issue, is that the chassis is designed to and dose flex a little .
  " Sitting on the jack stands my driver side door doesn't want to close for a number of reasons ".
When on 4 wheels the weight is over the 8 spring mounts. When on the stands ( nearer the centre ) the chassis flexes and will be higher in the centre compaired to the ends than when supported by the springs . You may consider when it comes to final alignments to have car is on wheels.
Good luck & I look forward to following the progress .
Regards Des.

Hi Des,  That's an excellent observation and analysis.  I'll be sure to do the suspension work prior to the final reassembly of the body.  This new observation will change my game plan a bit.  I guess before doing any body repair I should address the suspension.  My car seemed to lean to the driver's side even without anyone in it.  The leaf springs need to be repaired and re-arched.  I have a good spring shop near me so I will have to shift from body work to suspension.

Many Thanks for posting,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on October 30, 2016, 10:57:32 PM
Take a careful look at your shackles . I had a broken spring that wore the Tryon brand hangers egged on the end dropping driver side 3/16"  . Just reversing hangers holders and replacing spring corrected . Also DBC website has a list of all arch measurements of Dodge springs ,by physical sizes may match to other Mopars . If nothing else both sides should be the same .
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 31, 2016, 04:08:46 AM
Take a careful look at your shackles . I had a broken spring that wore the Tryon brand hangers egged on the end dropping driver side 3/16"  . Just reversing hangers holders and replacing spring corrected . Also DBC website has a list of all arch measurements of Dodge springs ,by physical sizes may match to other Mopars . If nothing else both sides should be the same .

OK Tom, thanks for the tip. I will be checking into all this over the next couple of days.  Hopefully be able to find some specs on 29 Plymouth suspension.  My car seems to lean forward so I think I have more issues with the front than the back.  If I am going to start in this area I will probably be addressing all the steering components also.   

Cheers,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 01, 2016, 01:39:12 AM
Time to shift Gears:

I found a company that will remanufacture my front springs.  The Plymouth Part Number is 43606 which fits all cars before Y-097-CR.   It is a 9 leaf spring assembly.  The company is; Eaton Detroit Spring Co.  I decided to replace the front with new springs because the front sits low and also after 80 years of carrying the motor weight I figure it is time for a change.  I will probably disassemble and clean the rear springs but they seem to be up to the task.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_001)

Since I have the roof removed I need to remove the steering wheel so that I can repair it.  If any one has any words of wisdom they would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: westaus29 on November 02, 2016, 03:27:53 PM
Hi Chet, when I first started working on my 29U I used more enthusiasm than skill and rapidly learned that the steering column is soft steel and easily damaged, so had to go find another one. My steering wheel boss is aluminium which binds to the shaft. Heat and penetrating oil could help but is difficult to apply and control where it is needed. When I stripped my 38 for derusting a couple of years ago I built a puller to remove the easily damaged plastic wheel and have found that it works well on the 29U wheel. It is made from two pieces of 4 x 2 pine clamped together with a 1-5/8 inch hole drilled thru the middle, and some 1/4 steel plate for strength, with a cheap, lightweight steering wheel puller for muscle. The pine is first clamped around the column under the wheel with two reinforcing plates, then the puller body is placed under the third plate and its screw is inserted thru the plate into the puller body. This upper puller assembly is then loosely bolted to the pine. Loosen the steering wheel nut level with top of shaft, insert a suitable bolt with washer in the end of the shaft to protect it, tighten the upper assembly down then progressively tighten the puller screw and apply a light hammer to the screw and it should come free with lots of penetrating oil, patience and persistence.
Pictures are attached.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 02, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
THANKS, for the info on the steering wheel puller looks like a safe way of pulling the wheel off without creating any more additional damage.  Nice idea..., I will be heading in that direction soon. 

Right now I am still dealing with the front suspension.  OK, here is the typical dilemma we face with these old Plymouths.  "Repair Part's".
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_002)

The size of the leaf spring eye holes were changed in 1933.  So no existing replacement parts are available.  Since I am having the springs made I could change the eye holes to facilitate an available 1935 shackle or go the other route and have shackle parts made ?  The front leaf spring eye hole is ¾” in diameter accepting a ¾" Bronze bushing with an ID of 9/16".  I can find Oilite Bushings ¾ x ½ inch and drill them out to 9/16 ID.  OK not a bad fix?

The shackle side is a little more of an issue in that the shackle posts are badly worn and deformed.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_003)

I may order a 1933 front shackle to see how close it matches then I could have the rear eyelet hole drilled to that size.  The 1929 eyelet hole is 7/8"

Any suggestions ???  None of this is ever easy.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on November 02, 2016, 06:45:33 PM
Chet . looks like you got a lot of it figured . Only thing a would look again ,  at is reaming out shackle hole in spring . I had same question when I adapted the Chrysler spring to my Dodge ,front oil lite was prefect fit, but rear needed bushing out and larger hole . I did not think it best to cut hardened spring so machined the surface hardened post to fit , this let the ends still hard . If your posts are totaled . Just machine new ones and surface harden .
  Was curious if on springs strap you found the manuf. number and a symbol of a keystone . If so they were probable made by Tyron Co . also, like shackles , out of Harrisburg Pa. .
                                                      tom 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 02, 2016, 09:17:21 PM
... I had same question when I adapted the Chrysler spring to my Dodge ,front oil lite was prefect fit, but rear needed bushing out and larger hole .

Tom,

What size were the shackle pins on your Dodge.  On the Plymouth they fit a 7/8" hole.  See Diagram below.  Does this look anything like your Dodge shackles.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_004)

On the drivers side spring I need one shackle pin and both inner and outer shackle plates Items 2 & 9. I can have them made but fear this might cost $$$.  I may need to find a small metal shop out here in Delaware.  It probably cost the same to make one as it does to make 20.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on November 03, 2016, 01:38:16 AM
Looks a lot like mine .Will have to measure . Remember pin is pressed fit in spring . See attached info at
www.wokr.org/library/Tryon.PDF  Trying to attach a pic of mine don't seem to work .  Did work ,good !
   (http://)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on November 03, 2016, 01:45:52 AM
Yes a far as caps maybe costly to make . May, keep eye on e-bay . Saw some I did not measure at Hershey so there out there . Jay at Pre1939Chrysler on aaca forum may have some lightly used ones I must go to his shop to look for my replacement . It is were I got my spring . My pic shows donor spring and removed main leaf and  leafs attaching to .
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 03, 2016, 04:54:00 PM
Looks a lot like mine .Will have to measure . Remember pin is pressed fit in spring . See attached info at
www.wokr.org/library/Tryon.PDF  Trying to attach a pic of mine don't seem to work .  Did work ,good !
   

Bingo !!

Tom that is the exact shackle for the 29 Plymouth U Front leaf rear shackle.  I haven't checked the rear springs yet.
As stated in the PDF document you posted:   www.wokr.org/library/Tryon.PDF (http://www.wokr.org/library/Tryon.PDF)

Shackle Pin Dimensions:

Pin OD = 0.877 +-0.0005 (approx. 7/8)  &  Length = 2.9375  (approx. 2 & 15/16)

And yes the pin was press fitted into my spring.  I removed it using my press.  Now based on the other cars that used this shackle I can broaden my part search.  I will post this 3 page PDF file to the Tech Area.

Many, many thanks for your research !!!!    Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on November 03, 2016, 09:55:08 PM
Your welcome .   Also E-bay as a NOS set for sale now ,they claim for Chevy ,but show no measurements . You may ask .
                     Tom
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on November 04, 2016, 05:47:19 PM
Check out page 248 part RW2 of The Filling Station catalog . It has new posts available ,that look close . 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 04, 2016, 10:21:31 PM
Check out page 248 part RW2 of The Filling Station catalog . It has new posts available ,that look close .

Hi Tom,

I checked out the ones on ebay and also the ones from the catalog.  The Chevy 30-33 was a Tryon Shackle but the Shackle pins are to small.  It is a shame that dimensions for old parts are not stated.  Back in the day most auto manufactures used off the shelf manufactured parts which were not proprietary.  If I can't find original parts there are options.  Probably use oil-lite bearings and pin the shackles that I have.  Also discussing this with Tom at Antique Auto Parts.  If I ever find a proper replacement I can always pop out the oil-lite bearings and install the original Tryon Shackle.  I sent the spring I have to EATON Detroit Spring and hopefully they can make me a fresh new set.  They need the old spring mainly to determine the hardness of the material.  In the meantime I am dissembling all the front steering components, they will all be cleaned, painted, and checked for excessive wear.  Anything badly worn will be repaired are replaced.  The good news is the King Pins are in great shape.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_005)


Tks Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 12, 2016, 12:30:10 AM
UPDATE:   Just to be clear:

My goal is always to do no harm to the original components when trying to find a modern day part solution.  
What I mean is..,
I will not modify any original component so that it can not be returned to its historic originality if and when an original part is found. 

My solution for the Tryon Shackle Issue:

After much discussion with various vendors and part restorers I stumbled across a fix that will maintain the historic integrity of my car and I believe also produce a road worthy solution.   I was able to find parts in a trailer store that met the requirements for a reasonable noninvasive fix. 
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_006)

The shackle straps are a close match to the remains of the Tryon Shackle Straps.
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_007)

The total cost of the parts for this fix for both leaf springs was $ 45.54

BTW the Teflon bushings are rated at 4,000 lbs. each.  EATON Detroit Springs are in the process of duplicating my front leaf springs.  The cost is pricey but I believe it will be well worth it.

Once the suspension is brought back to a reasonable and sound condition I will be able to allow the car to rest on its normal suspension and use jacks only to firm up the chassis while I fit the wooden frame and body parts.  This way, when sitting on its normal suspension the stress on the frame parts should be at minimum.  Also once aligned the hope is that it will stay in an aligned state after all the work is completed and the car rests on its normal road worthy suspension.   :)



Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Jim Yergin on November 12, 2016, 02:45:03 AM
Chet,
Congratulations on finding a solution. I enjoy watching your progress.
Jim Yergin
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on November 12, 2016, 03:16:39 AM
Great solution Chet . I agree with your goals and try to do same . This modification would be hard to be picked up .
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on November 12, 2016, 09:35:46 PM
Nice, Chet!  Your effort will benefit all of us.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 16, 2016, 02:18:22 AM
The Suspension Continued.

I continued the work of cleaning and checking the front suspension components.  I spent an entire day working on the Drag Link steering arm.  The crusted grease and road gravel collected over the past 8 decades was not easy to remove.  I worked slowly with a small wood chisel to scrap the accumulated crust off the Drag Link arm.  It took a considerable amount of time before things started to look like something that could be disassembled.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_014) .. (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_015)

As you can see below, persistence always pays off.  The most impressive thing to me was the condition of the tightly bound component parts.  I am sure that this Drag Link has not been disassembled since the manufacture of the car but the component parts were in reasonable shape for the age of this automobile.  I believe when I assemble these parts they should be good for another 80+ years.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_016) .. (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_017)



Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 18, 2016, 05:35:41 PM
Your Thoughts.

Since I am working on the steering linkage.., the roof is off my car.., my wooden steering wheel is broken and in need of removal and repair, here is what I am thinking about doing.

First;  Removing the steering wheel without damaging the steering wheel cover or control arms and tubes.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/SteeringAssy01)(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/SteeringAssy02)

I have not done this before and do not want to break these seemingly delicate parts.  My assumption is that the top wood cover is held in place through a long shaft going down to the light switch assembly.  I believe this light switch and associated parts need to be removed before the cover and control tubes can be removed.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom before I tackle this area.

Also:  Since the steering arms cleaned up so nicely I was thinking of removing the entire steering assembly to clean and inspect for wear or damage.  see below...

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_018)(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/SteeringAssy03)

Many Thanks, Chet...


Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on November 18, 2016, 06:18:03 PM
Chet,

From memory,

Remove CLUM switch, all metal from the tubes below the steering gear and loosen any clamps that would prevent the tubes from moving towards the steering wheel.  The horn wire will go with the tubes as you remove them.

Pull up gently on the bakelite next to the steering wheel.  Every thing should ease out.  The tubes are attached to the levers.

The 2 bakelite pieces are joined by 2 screws and ferrules.  Note the orientation of the levers for reassembly.  I didn't and fussed with getting it back correctly, light lever at 6 o'clock or towards the bottom.

Unfortunately, I have no pictures.  If I could do it without wrecking anything, I know you can.  Other folks can provide better detail.

frank
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 19, 2016, 01:53:31 AM
Frank Your memory is excellent.  Everything worked out as you mentioned in your post:

I removed the bottom gravel pan and the switch assembly as well as all the clamps.  The cap and levers came out with just a little persuasion.  I also removed the Steering Gear Box.  Well for now I have a lot of parts to clean up.  The springs are on their way and Then & Now made new spring bumpers for me.  Plymouth Part# 43281

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/SteeringAssy04)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_019) (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/SteeringAssy05)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on November 19, 2016, 06:48:21 AM
Looks good. Chet.  Of course you know, now is the time to replace the horn wire, if needed.  Nice job on the spring bumpers.  frank
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 19, 2016, 05:41:04 PM
The Springs have arrived !!!
OLD:

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_002)

NEW:

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_020)

Hopefully the car will sit and ride evenly again.  Well see....

PS... Frank, Yes new horn wire a must.  Also; I plan to order a new reproduction wire harness for the car.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Crazydave on November 19, 2016, 07:17:47 PM
Good stuff Chet!

I already see items I will be referencing with my slow progress on my project.

Interested in the wiring harness source and price. It is something I need to get done.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on November 19, 2016, 11:59:09 PM
Good stuff Chet!
I already see items I will be referencing with my slow progress on my project.
Interested in the wiring harness source and price. It is something I need to get done.

I have not ordered from them but check out this link: 
http://www.harnessesunlimited.com/new%20forms/plymouth%20web%20page.pdf (http://www.harnessesunlimited.com/new%20forms/plymouth%20web%20page.pdf)

Website:   http://www.harnessesunlimited.com/ (http://www.harnessesunlimited.com/)

Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on November 20, 2016, 05:48:53 AM
Springs look great!  How fast was the turnaround?
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on December 04, 2016, 05:04:43 AM
I started the reassembly of the front suspension.

Over the past week or so I had removed the gravel shield and steering box and have been cleaning and renewing the front assembly parts.  Both tie rod ends have been cleaned as well as the tie rod shaft.  Removing the protective coating of grime has been a difficult task.  I am saving some parts like the gravel shields for the Hot Tank at our local Napa store.  Also I cleaned as much of the wheel well as needed and painted it with flat black rust-oleum.  With this work completed I started to reassemble the driver's side suspension.

I lightly honed the frame shackle holes to clear them of any burs.  I used a large 'C' clamp to press the Teflon Bushing into place.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_021) (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_022)

Below is a picture of the shackle setup without the locking nuts.  I added washers to keep the shackle ends from scraping against the spring and frame support.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_023) (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_024)

I installed the Steering Box, New Leaf Spring, Bumper, reassembled the Drag Link, New Grease fittings and greased everything.  I am very happy with the end result.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_025)

I also spent some time on the passenger side spring now that the Driver's side is completed.  The passenger side was in really bad shape.  The top leaf had been broken and was welded.  I can't believe I was ridding around with this spring in this condition.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_026)

BTW, The passenger side leaf spring had a different shackle setup.  It had a metal bushing with a screw in center pivot shaft that the shackle ends connected to.  Definitely a much better shackle than the Tryon Shackle.  I believe the different shackle and welded top leaf happened quite awhile ago.  With all the grime on the leaf spring you couldn't notice that a half leaf was added to facilitate the broken front spring eyelet.   :o

Chet...






Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on December 04, 2016, 05:25:38 PM
Looking good Chet . I did not see the different passenger side shackle , please show .
     Also on your removal of steering box . Did you notice any slotting of holes in frame where it mounts or internal adjustment . I am trying to adjust my steering wheel higher to accommodate my love handles . There are slots on the mount in cab , but maybe for just differences in cabs and frames .
    Remember reading about the bolt holding the shackle together also squeezed it to dampen the action of the suspension and nuts were then locked in position . Do not know how your extra washers may effect that ,if at all . 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on December 04, 2016, 11:58:30 PM
Looking good Chet . I did not see the different passenger side shackle , please show .
     Also on your removal of steering box . Did you notice any slotting of holes in frame where it mounts or internal adjustment . I am trying to adjust my steering wheel higher to accommodate my love handles . There are slots on the mount in cab , but maybe for just differences in cabs and frames .
    Remember reading about the bolt holding the shackle together also squeezed it to dampen the action of the suspension and nuts were then locked in position . Do not know how your extra washers may effect that ,if at all .

Tom,

There is not much adjustment you can do with the steering box as far as raising it.  There are only 4 bolts that hold the box in place and basically have slight adjustability to facilitate aligning the pivot gear through the frame. 

With the shackles I used.., there is no center bolt just end nuts for each shackle shaft.  These bolts are not locked down against the shackle sides.  The bolts are self locking so you leave a little play to allow for movement. 

I will clean the old shackle I removed and take a picture.  I believe these might be the same on the rear springs and if so.., they should be in great shape since this shackle is a mechanical overkill for the purpose.  The front is coming out so well that I might go for new rear springs also.

Thanks for your interest,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on December 30, 2016, 12:14:59 AM
Looking good Chet . I did not see the different passenger side shackle , please show .....   

Seasons Greetings and back to work.

I cleaned up the Shackle which was on the front passenger side spring.  This shackle is very different to the Tryon Shackle which I am told was used on this car.  I have attached a picture below in the hopes that someone might recognize this shackle.  I believe my rear springs also have this type of shackle.  Of course the rear shackle is a bit larger.
See Below...

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_027)

Tks, Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 03, 2017, 11:32:52 PM
Happy New Year !!!

On this rainy January 3rd. I installed the new passenger side front leaf spring and reassembled the tie rod ends and installed and aligned the front spindles as well as I could without the drums and wheels.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_028)

I also dropped off the front brake mounting plates and the gravel guards from the engine compartment.., at my local Napa machine shop to be hot tank and clean before paint and reassembly.  I have new front brake pads ready for installation.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_029)

I am almost finished with the front suspension, I guess I will turn my attention to the rear axle once I am totally finished with the front. 
PS... this is coming out better than I expected.  I think the word is awesome.  :)

Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on January 04, 2017, 12:27:22 AM
Looking good there Chet . I see those other shackles ,though maybe they were Ford type . I think Ford's have castle type nuts . Probability some aftermarket company . Noticed your tie rod ends are the spring topped type is there part numbers on them , and are they original ?
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 04, 2017, 04:15:29 AM
... Noticed your tie rod ends are the spring topped type is there part numbers on them , and are they original ?

All the steering components are my original parts which have been disassembled cleaned and reassembled.  Including the tie rod, the tie rod ends, and drag link.

Cheers,  Chet..
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on January 04, 2017, 09:39:57 PM
Lookin' good, Chet!   Brings memories of long ago.   frank
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on January 05, 2017, 07:42:01 PM
Chet, you can re-do my springs and make them look shiny like yours when you're finished ;)

Ted
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 07, 2017, 07:27:39 PM
Ted, I think this car may cure me of any future ambitious tasks related to springs. 

Frank, your past experiences will continue to prove helpful as time goes on.  The steering wheel removal was exactly as you remembered.

I wanted to make more progress today but the weather will just not cooperate. I  picked up my parts from the machine shop on Friday an with the aid of two electric heaters and one propane heater I was able to warm my work shed enough to paint these parts.   Allowing them to sit out in the air after cleaning would just invite rust.   As it was, I had to lightly buff them prior to painting.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_030)

As far as today goes, since this morning we are experiencing whiteout conditions and between the cold winds and snow it's not enjoyable to be working out in the garage today.  Even with the heaters running.   :(
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 12, 2017, 02:13:06 AM
Have to keep on Trucking,

Today I installed the brake support plates, brake cylinders, and pads.  As usual everything should be straight forward but I did run across a question.  My driver's side Dust Shield (Item 10 in the drawing) was on the outside of the brake support plate and the passenger side Dust Shield was positioned on the inner side of the brake support plate.  Just so we are on the same page see the diagram below.  (Item 10)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_031)

I assume that this dust shield allows grease and grime from the rear bearing to be collected and expelled out the back of the brake support plate.  The picture from the Plymouth Instruction Booklet for 1929 shows the Dust Shield behind the Brake Support Plate.  This is the way I installed these on both wheels.   See photo below:

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_032)

If I misunderstood this please let me know.

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on January 12, 2017, 03:29:54 PM
I don't know if this helps...took these a few weeks ago.  These are right front (passenger):

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/20161209_163955_zpsc69mumql.jpg) (http://s947.photobucket.com/user/racertb/media/Car%20Stuff/20161209_163955_zpsc69mumql.jpg.html)

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/20161209_163950_zpswjsgqmqc.jpg) (http://s947.photobucket.com/user/racertb/media/Car%20Stuff/20161209_163950_zpswjsgqmqc.jpg.html)

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/20161209_155704_zps7srfqebm.jpg) (http://s947.photobucket.com/user/racertb/media/Car%20Stuff/20161209_155704_zps7srfqebm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 12, 2017, 05:38:29 PM
Thanks Ted,

I believe this positioning to be correct.  I believe your first picture below also supports this.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Suspension_033)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 19, 2017, 02:36:30 AM
The Framing Issue:

With the front suspension completed and all 4 wheels supporting the car again I continued on the framing project.  First I stripped out the old floor to get an idea of the daunting task ahead of me.  I am very disappointed by the lack of original wood.  I was hoping that something of the sill assembly was left but to my disappointment none to be found.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_009)

Using the three frame mounting points on each side of the car (6 all together) I was able to determine my understanding of what the sill plate might have looked like.  The picture below is a rough idea and the following are my determinations.  If anyone has information other then this, please let me know.

1)  Sill plate thickness 1 3/4".  Length, width, and exact shape to be determined.
2)  Sill will be a single piece structure from front to back.
3)  Rear section support brace is secured with Lap Joints and through bolted to the frame. 
4)  The rear body section sits on 4 defined frame points which will square the back section and everything from that point forward will be measured from the back section as the reference.

The Plymouth frame construction appears to be simpler in nature then the Fisher Body which relies more on mortise joints.  the Plymouth frame utilizes metal braces at high stress connection points.  Also mortis joints are used in many places.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Wood_Sill_dig)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 23, 2017, 07:14:32 PM
Frame Project Update:

This update has two many pictures to add to this post so if you are interested please click on the link below to my online project diary.
( For you younger folks a diary is the same as a blog  :) )

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01222017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01222017.htm)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: jeffrey grare on January 26, 2017, 01:11:24 AM
Chet, I am in the process of building new main side sills.I purchased tips on auto body woodwork by Don Marsh (ebay) he explains in great detail about the main sills and how to reproduce them.He says to laminate two pieces together to prevent warping. On a car with 1-7/8 sills he says to use a 1" and  3/4" piece and to use white oak as it contains paraffin wax which will repel water.  He also explains how to replace the door woodwork using t-nuts as our cars wood framing was assembled then the sheet metal was secured to the wood.I think hjs literature was listed under Hudson or Essex on ebay.Its only about 17 or 18 pages but worth every penny' good luck J Grare
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: jeffrey grare on January 26, 2017, 01:31:56 AM
Chet, just checked ebay its listed under   Tips on auto body woodwork by Don Marsh      $18.00   JG
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 26, 2017, 03:17:56 AM
Chet, just checked ebay its listed under   Tips on auto body woodwork by Don Marsh      $18.00   JG

Thanks Jeff, for the info.  I have a lot of literature on auto frame construction.  I am using 3/4" sections of Poplar (a closed-grain hardwood) glued together on opposing grain for strength.  For me, poplar is easily obtainable from my local lumber supplier.  A member 3" wide will be constructed from 4 planks of 3/4" wide material.  The sill will be made of two planks 3/4" thick with one plank on top and bottom of a 1/4" wide middle section.   Total width 1.750 inches.  The finished sections will be painted with weather protective stain prior to final assembly.   Anyway once my car is done the chances of it being deliberately left out in the rain are slim to none.  PS... I am also using premium exterior wood glue.  I agree that white oak is more durable but also is harder to shape and is more expensive.   I appreciate your input, all these comments keep me focused and honest.

Actually I haven't cast any of this in stone yet so I am open to any and all opinions.  Actually the original frame might have been pine maybe that's why not much of it is left.  The pieces that are left are grainy and extremely light in weight ?

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 29, 2017, 04:03:49 AM

The weather here in Delaware this week has granted me permission to forge ahead with my project.

I have not yet decided what type of wood or combination of wood I will use for the sill member.  Jeffrey made a good case for white oak.  I am thinking about treated deck board with a 1/4 inch of oak glued to the top surface.  I think durability might be more important then strength.  After all, if the board is properly bolted to the frame it could support more weight then I could put into the car. 

Anyway the link below gives the blow by blow on my progress recreating the left Hinge Pillar Assembly.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/01282017.htm

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: 29UJohn on January 30, 2017, 01:54:15 AM
Chet,
If you need information on the curve of the sill wood, i have a new set of sill plates. The outer edge of the sill plates approximates the outer edge and curve of the outer wood edges.  If that would help, I could trace the sill plate edges and send to you.
I rebuilt my car's woodwork in 1974 and the sill wood had to be replaced. the edges were not in good shape, but there was enough left to figure the approx shape, and along with the sill covers I was able to get the curve shape good enough using a manual drawknife. 
Your wood plan sounds real good.  All I could do at 16 was use two each 3/4 inch pine boards treated with coprotox and sealed with marine varnish.  It worked and is still in good shape.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 30, 2017, 05:28:41 AM

If you need information on the curve of the sill wood, i have a new set of sill plates. The outer edge of the sill plates approximates the outer edge and curve of the outer wood edges.  If that would help, I could trace the sill plate edges and send to you.

John,

Replacing the sill members on these old cars at age 16 is quite an undertaking.  Accomplishing the repair is even more impressive.   :)

Tracing the sill plate curve would be beneficial as a check.  I was planning on using the sill outer cover to create the curve once the sill member was in place with the cowl and rear section also correctly located.  I would then ensure the alignment of the doors and center door pillar is correct before I create the curved section of wood.  This curved section would be glued and screwed to the wood sill.  Since the metal support brackets need to be mortised into the sill, I would cover the top of the sill with a 1/4 inch finish wood with the mortised sections precut. 

Question,  I think you told me that the sill plates go over the sill cover.  If so.., is the sill cover flush with the floor.  If it is, I would have to route the edge of the sill member to allow the sill cover to finish at the exact height of the floor.   Considering that these bodies were made by companies that made wood coaches, this level of craftsmanship was probably employed ?

Your thoughts,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: 29UJohn on January 31, 2017, 04:09:22 AM
Chet,
Mortising in the sill covers into the floor so they are flush would seem to allow the sill plates to sit flat.  It seems like it would be better, and I have wondered about this.  But I do not think this was the case for my original floor boards, as I did not see any indication that they were mortised in.  But that was 43 years ago! 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on January 31, 2017, 05:51:18 AM
Chet,
Mortising in the sill covers into the floor so they are flush would seem to allow the sill plates to sit flat.  It seems like it would be better, and I have wondered about this.  But I do not think this was the case for my original floor boards, as I did not see any indication that they were mortised in.  But that was 43 years ago!

Great, Less work to do.  Anyway with the rubber mat in the front and rug in the rear, the cover thickness is a moot point.

Tks,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on February 13, 2017, 09:49:58 PM
This is a rather large update with many pictures.  So please click the link below for the details.

Creating the Sill Member and it's installation.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02132017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02132017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame07.JPG)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on February 15, 2017, 12:26:45 AM
Nice work, Chet!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Old Man on February 15, 2017, 01:19:56 AM
Chet I am finishing a very long project that is coach built like your 29 Plymouth. After looking back on it I would not have tried so desperately  to follow the exact contour of the different pieces of wood. It finally occurred to me that I could have built my own vehicle as long as the metal sheets fit in place. And I could have built it much quicker. I finally started using heavy duty Permatex clear RTV to glue the metal sheets in place. Those guys 80 odd years ago had a lot more skill and patience than I do. A lot more.  It's going together fine and yes I did use some small nails to position the steel. Nobody will every know (except you guys) that I resorted to 21st century technology. I also used carpenter's water proof glue Ina lot of places even though there was no evidence of any being originally. I think we over think the originality of the construction of these vehicles don't use the more modern methods and materials available to us . if I was to do this vehicle over again I could lop off several years I'm sure. Just my 2cents. Been there,done that.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: 29UJohn on February 15, 2017, 01:36:52 AM
Your detailed drawings will be a big help to the next guy to tackle this job!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on February 15, 2017, 02:59:34 AM
Thank you all for the kind words.  Your interest keeps me focused and honest.

John,  If someone could benefit from what I am doing that would be great. I know I have learned a lot from what others have done.

Old Man,  Nice to hear from you its been awhile.  You always bring a different perspective to any discussion.  I am sure whatever you are working on is coming out just fine.  I sometimes complain about the work that the last guy who owned my car did;  but in reality if all its previous owners left it to rust my old car wouldn't exist.  So hopefully many years from now when someone else works on this car maybe the new owner might express a few kind words about the old guy in 2017 that did the restoration work.  That would be really cool because in 2117 they might be retrofitting the old Plymouth with a new electric power plant that looks like the old 4 banger.  Probably be powered by a laptop battery.  Oh well that's a stretch.

 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on February 20, 2017, 09:58:05 PM
UPDATE:

Old Man's words of wisdom are exactly correct.  I am trying to stay as close as possible to the original construction of the Plymouth frame but have to work with the tools and information I have at hand.   Obviously working without formal templates, drawings, or special tools; I try to construct as close as possible to the engineering intent and not the exact construction methods used in the period the car was built.

As I peel back the onion on this car the task is as daunting as ever but we are taking it one step at a time.  Hopefully the end product will be worth it.  As the Old Man said what you can't see is between us...

See the link below for the update just to much to post directly:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02202017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02202017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame25.JPG)

Cheers Chet...

Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Rusty on February 21, 2017, 05:45:10 AM
What wood working tools did you use? 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on February 21, 2017, 03:55:38 PM
What wood working tools did you use?

Rusty,

Nothing fancy, also standard hand operated power tools, jig saw, router, and a drill press not shown below.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Tools01)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on February 24, 2017, 12:40:42 AM
New Hinge Pillar Installation

This will be my last update for a while.  Everything I have done to date to the driver's side of my car I will be reversing and doing to the passenger side.  Since the methods are the same I don't see any reason to post the blow by blow description.  Will start posting again once I reach a point of new work.  Please see the link below.., just to much to post in this thread.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02232017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/02232017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame34.JPG)

Cheers, Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on March 16, 2017, 06:21:42 PM
Since the board has been so quite I will post another update.  The cold weather that has rolled into the neighborhood has put the brakes on my wood working project.  See the link below for my progress to date.

Passenger Sill and Rear Cross Sill 

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/03152017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/03152017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame41.JPG)

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on March 17, 2017, 04:52:30 AM
Nice work, Chet.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on March 20, 2017, 02:10:42 AM
Yes...really nice.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on May 08, 2017, 12:17:25 AM
Passenger Side Hinge Pillar

With the complicated work of creating the left & right side sill plates and also the rear cross sill behind me.  I completed the construction of the passenger side hinge pillar.  Basically I reversed everything I did to the driver's side and applied it to the passenger side.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame43.JPG)

Once all the wood was positioned properly I squared off the rear body assembly.  Using dimensions I calculated and verified with actual measurements from forum member <29UJohn> who also has a 1929 Plymouth 4 door sedan.  I bolted everything down.

The strength of this rear section is now comparable to a newly constructed car.   I will move on to new work like  rebuilding the rear seat frame assembly and rear window frame which will add even more strength to the rear section of my old car.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame44.JPG)

Cheers,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: 29UJohn on May 09, 2017, 05:42:47 AM
Looking good, Chet!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on May 14, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Rear Frame & Lower Window Assembly

I posted a link below to the blow by blow description.

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/05142017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/05142017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame50.JPG)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Rusty on May 15, 2017, 07:01:24 AM
Was the orginial wood stained?
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on May 15, 2017, 02:39:24 PM
Was the orginial wood stained?

Rusty, I couldn’t say for sure whether or not my car's original wood was treated with stain or anything else.   I have seen other more unmolested versions of the 28/29 roof assembly and it didn’t appear that the roof structure was treated with anything except normal weathering.  All I can say about my car is that the body structure wood that was original to my car was blackened quite possibly by age.  Drilling into the old wood also produced darkened wood particles.   Not quite as dark but dark.  Age and a great deal of moisture might account for the blackened color (mold).  I really couldn't say. ?

PS... Take a look at Dave's resto thread.  His roof wood pictures show a mixed bag including body color, dark wood, and weathering. 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Rusty on May 16, 2017, 03:33:25 AM
My roof wood looked dark, but I think it was age.  If I had to guess, not stained or painted. 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on May 18, 2017, 09:09:15 PM
Was the orginial wood stained?

Rusty,

Since you first asked this question I have been thinking more on the subject.  I started today working on the rear window frame pieces and kept thinking about your question.  I believe the internal wood frame members were originally stained with a dark to black stain or light flat paint.  See pictures below to corroborate what I just stated.  These upper rear window frame pieces were original to the car.  The color of the wood facing the metal skins is the same as the wood facing the interior of the car.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/OriginalWood01.jpg) (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/OriginalWood02.jpg)

The inside joint shows lighter wood than the exterior surface and on the piece to the right the original color of my car which was Meridian Blue.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/OriginalWood03.jpg) (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/OriginalWood04.jpg)

I don't think it was age that colored the wood.  I think it was originally painted or stained.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Rusty on May 19, 2017, 05:16:03 AM
It sure looks that way.  Was the inside body metal painted or just primed?  Could the interior be painted black primer? Everything was painted, wood and metal.  My car has a new interior but untouched mechanics.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: 29UJohn on May 19, 2017, 02:21:50 PM
I agree with Chet. The interior wood on my 29 appears to be stained a dark reddish- brown.  Not that anyone will see it when it is completed.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on May 19, 2017, 11:25:08 PM
It sure looks that way.  Was the inside body metal painted or just primed?  Could the interior be painted black primer? Everything was painted, wood and metal.  My car has a new interior but untouched mechanics.

Rusty,

The untouched rear internal section of my car's metal skin was rusted.  I would assume that when manufactured something was painted on the metal to help protect it from rust.  Below is a picture before I started my work.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info\1929\images\Build\Body_024.jpg)

PS... I didn't worry about matching colors of paint and stain.  Like John said.., nobody will ever see the work I am doing to the wood framing once the interior is reinstalled.  I am however trying to duplicate the framing as close as possible to the original, without the assistance of the original technical drawings.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on June 02, 2017, 09:02:08 PM
Rear Window Frame & Upper Cross Member

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/06022017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/06022017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame62.JPG)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on June 02, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Chet - this looks great...I checked out the link too...nice work.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on June 04, 2017, 01:42:31 AM
Chet - this looks great...I checked out the link too...nice work.

Thanks Ted,

I hope you are enjoying your cars, the weather here finally hit a homerun today.  Melissa & I took the 48 out for a ride and wound up at a local car show.  We checked out the cars, had some lunch, and than continued on our drive.  Unfortunately after about 3 hours at a car show I start to get antsy so back on the road.  We did about 120 miles and ended up in an outdoor restaurant on the water near the beach.  A good day by all standards.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on June 05, 2017, 10:32:24 PM
Any day these old cars run and make it home safely is a good day!  ;)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on June 13, 2017, 02:29:54 AM
The Cowl Frame Assembly

With the rear frame section completed, I moved my attention to the Cowl Assembly.  Once this section is completed I will be able to hang my doors and position the center door column supports.   Once all this work is completed I will be able to start work on the roof members.

I started by striping the Cowl down to the frame pieces or in my case what's left of the original frame.  I removed the dash and the upper window metal which included the metal front door hinge pillars and windshield.  I also removed all the component parts from the dash.

The picture below is a view of the back side of my dash.  I believe the blue paint is the original body color of my car.  So I am assuming that the area of the dash behind the front windshield was painted the same as the Plymouth body color.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame63.JPG)

It appears that the Cowl consists of three wood members.  The center dash and windshield support and the left and right side front door hinge pillars.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame64.JPG)

The only original wood left was the center windshield support.  I will be able to use this piece by joining new wood to the left and right sides.  I will be able to use the metal hinge plates to fabricate the wood hinge pillars.  So the cowl is basically three wood members joined together with the rigid metal supports.  The good news is, I have all the original metal supports.

I would be interested in any pictures of this area showing the wood members, the hinge pillar, and the windshield.


Thanks,  Chet...  PS.. I have the lift assembly for the front windshield.


Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on July 09, 2017, 09:53:15 PM
Cowl Frame continued

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07092017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07092017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame72.JPG)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on July 10, 2017, 12:30:13 AM
Chet, Fantastic work!!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on July 11, 2017, 11:25:21 PM
Master craftsman!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on July 13, 2017, 03:28:23 AM

Thanks Frank & Ted,

but I think you should hold back any praise until I hang the doors.  That will be the proof  in the pudding.  I've got my fingers crossed.

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on July 23, 2017, 02:27:31 PM
Cowl Frame Continued - The Dash

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07232017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07232017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame80.JPG)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on July 25, 2017, 06:36:41 PM
I couldn't resist.  I had to install the front door !

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07252017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07252017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_030.jpg)

It seems that my work is paying off.  Fingers crossed on the other 3 doors.

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on July 30, 2017, 12:23:00 AM
It's Great when a plan comes together !

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07302017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/07302017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Body_037.jpg)

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on July 31, 2017, 08:30:11 PM
Looking good!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on August 13, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
Driver's Side Upper Roof Frame

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/08132017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/08132017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame87.JPG)

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on August 31, 2017, 09:13:53 PM
Upper Roof Frame Continued (front)

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/08312017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/08312017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame105.JPG)

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: hursst on September 04, 2017, 03:54:41 AM
Really enjoyed your posts, keep up the great restoration work!
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on September 13, 2017, 08:15:47 PM
Roof Frame Continued (front & driver's side)

Due to the length of this task and the number of pictures I posted a link to the blow by blow description below:

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/09132017.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/Work_files/2017/09132017.htm)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame112.JPG)

Chet...

PS... Thanks Chris (hursst) for the At-a-boy...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on September 25, 2017, 08:33:38 PM
Finally finished the last of the structural framing

I can finally move on to something new.  Yes I know that there is still plenty of wood work to complete but the structural side of the equation is now in the past.  It's actually been a little over a year since I started down this road.  Pretty soon maybe I'll have something to actually drive again.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame116.JPG)

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/WoodFrame117.JPG)

I'm thinking Floor next ?


Chet...

Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on September 29, 2017, 09:00:24 PM
Chet,  You'll be crusin' in no time!  To answer two flooring questions...

1.  I need to look at this and get you some pictures, but I remember there is one directly under the "back" of the front seat; at right angle to the B pillars

5.  Neither my car or Dave's had a cross member at the toe/floor intersection.

6.  This picture is Dave's car.  I was lucky to find my Body Tag.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on September 30, 2017, 05:58:31 AM
Frank, Thanks for the info and picture.

Dave's car is a treasure trove of information details.  I was fascinated by the two nails in the sill washer below the bolt holding the sill in place.  This is the kind of stuff that gets washed away by owner repairs over the life of the car.  The body plate is where I thought it should go.

I also sent an email to Jeff Buton to pick his brain also.

Thanks for all the help,  Currently working on the rear suspension, Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Crazydave on October 01, 2017, 06:27:28 PM
Nice work Chet. I know I'll be looking back at this thread for info. If you need any info send me an email.
 
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: 29UJohn on October 07, 2017, 07:26:14 PM
Hey Chet,
I'll respond here to the floor board questions.
Interesting that on my car the solid wood two cross members do not extend to the frame. They seem to mainly provide reinforcement of a sort.  The plywood on mine is one piece that extends from the front edge of the rear seat all the way to the front removeable floorboard. The center cross board on mine seems mainly to provide extra support for the center pillar brackets.  The front solid wood piece provides a lip support for the front removable floorboard, but otherwise seems to just provide overall extra strength to the plywood.

The two cross boards do not extend to the frame, but rather the wood sill boards rest on the rubber frame pads and the attachment bolts go through the side sill boards.

The rear solid cross member sits on top of the rear edge of the plywood and supports the front edge of the rear seat.

Anyway, that is how mine is.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 07, 2017, 11:20:54 PM
Thanks John

I appreciate the info,  Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: Articifer Tom on October 08, 2017, 02:53:29 PM
Hello  , Chet
  In a continuation of a discussion at Hershey on paint colors . When I said about light blue primer . Attached is a pic of the other Dodge '31 build pickup cab with light blue under black and interior green . Since it shows up in only the cab section of the truck and your composite cab . Can this be that manufactures primer and not a former color . Your page 6 shows it well .
   Any other examples out there ?


Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 08, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Hello  , Chet
  In a continuation of a discussion at Hershey on paint colors . When I said about light blue primer . Attached is a pic of the other Dodge '31 build pickup cab with light blue under black and interior green . Since it shows up in only the cab section of the truck and your composite cab . Can this be that manufactures primer and not a former color . Your page 6 shows it well .
   Any other examples out there ?

I don't know.  I think Walter P. was a waste not, want not, type of guy and liked to use what was left on the shelf.  I've been known to mix some paint remnants together and get a room done for free.  Another mystery or another practicality ?  Might have to ask those "History Detective" guys.  We need to find an expert on early 20th. century manufacturing.

As far as primer goes my understanding is that it provides a consistent and neutral surface for the top coat.  The lighter or darker primer I believe can affect the appearance of the outer paint but my knowledge is minimal in this area.  Maybe someone else has a comment.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on October 24, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Chet,   not the best picture, but hope you get the idea.  Unlike John, I have separate plywood in front and back of cross members at the B pillar.  The front plywood is 2 piece.  The height of the exposed vertical board at the rear seat is 2 11/16".
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 25, 2017, 01:22:49 AM
Thanks for the info Frank.

BTW what is the metal used for in the picture.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1929/images/Build/Floor01.jpg)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on October 25, 2017, 04:45:50 AM
This pan is under the front seat for tools and spare parts.  The standard place for these is under the rear seat, but I wanted room for a bottle jack, coil and other items.  It is galvanized and the outside is painted black to match the undercarriage.

(I made this in 2001 before driving about 200 miles east to Reedsburg, WI, for a Plymouth meet on a Thursday.  Sat I drove 200 miles north to a wedding reception and returned home the next day , another 200 miles.  I used the wrench for the oil drain plug.)
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 25, 2017, 07:31:13 PM

Just curious, what is your normal cruising speed ?
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on October 26, 2017, 12:53:02 AM
40, with tops about 45 or so.  Depends on road surface and to lesser degree, traffic.  In the city, main streets are 35 to 40 which are about right unless the surface is wretched; filled, mounded pot holes and sealed joints every 20 feet.  These are annoying in a modern car, too.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on October 26, 2017, 08:02:42 PM
Mine is 35-40mph as well...that's where she is most comfortable.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: chetbrz on October 27, 2017, 03:22:16 AM
Mine is 35-40mph as well...that's where she is most comfortable.

Ted,

Isn't it a little dangerous to be going that slow in Florida.  I do 70-75 and I have to stay in the right lane so I don't piss off the locals. 

Frank,

200 mile trip in one direction is pretty gutsy. Life in the slow lane sounds like fun.  Its great that you take those trips.

Chet...
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: racertb on October 27, 2017, 03:52:12 PM
Only around town and back roads for me in the '29...I avoid the highways.
Title: Re: 29 Build Thread
Post by: frankp on October 28, 2017, 10:30:49 PM
Yeah, Chet - gutsy or stupid without a cell phone, which is still nonexistent.  Although I don't know if reception is available even now on WI 70 west of Woodruff.  Pretty lonely on that Sunday.  Don't even remember any logging trucks, but it was scenic, if you enjoy trees.

It won't be long and you'll be crusin'.  Keep up the great work.   frank