28Q29U Plymouth Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Crazydave on November 04, 2013, 09:42:35 PM

Title: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on November 04, 2013, 09:42:35 PM
Well the battle starts. The first thing I wanted to do with this car is try and get her running, see how it sounds and have any problems hopefully show themselves right away. Well I need a part or two. See below Pics.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/Crazydave/-Plymouth/DSC02541.JPG?m=1515892686)
(http://www.1948plymouth.info/galley/var/resizes/Crazydave/-Plymouth/DSC02544.JPG?m=1515892688)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on November 04, 2013, 10:02:58 PM
It looks like someone recently attempted to get this car going. There was a newer coil and jumper wire zip tied to the E brake handle in the car. So my guess is when they cranked it, the old distributor base was gunked up and crumbled.

This is interesting in a box of parts I got another distributor, base and timing lever. These are a perfect mirror image of what I need. As you can see from the picture, the gears on distributors drive opposite, and the drive on the base is offset opposite to the bolt holes of the other. (it would mount upside down)

When Frank was out we looked up the part number on the spare parts and believe them to be from a model Q. Delco Remy 630B Plymouth-Q and 635T Plymouth U. So I have an original Q base in good shape that I'm sure someone somewhere would love to have and I need a base for a U. I started trying to hunt down parts here locally at the older yards and have not had luck yet. So if someone knows or hears about one, let me know it would be most helpful. In the mean time, I am going to attempt to have a machinist friend of mine make one out of billet aluminum since I have a good base with the correct diameter measurements available.

I am aware that someone had made reproductions, and booked marked there info. Would like an original eventually. 
Title: Dave's 1929 U Resto project - Back Story
Post by: Crazydave on November 04, 2013, 10:08:56 PM
This weekend I stopped back were I acquired the car and got the old owners info. So I will try and contact him soon and get the back story. It is suppose to be a one owner kept in the family since it was new. It would cool to know when it last ran etc. I'll update this thread as the story unravels and as I make progress. (maybe over the course of years lol)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on November 05, 2013, 02:40:37 AM
Hi Dave,

Replacing the distributor assembly with a remanufactured one is a good idea.  The original assembly crumbling I believe is pretty common.  It basically looks like pot metal.  Anyway, do you have a starter motor and does the engine crank over.  If it does.., a wet compression test can help you decide what your next steps might be for the engine.  Since the motor hasn't run for quite some time I would skip the dry compression test.  Don't worry too much about how much compression it pumps up the main thing is that it is reasonably consistent across all the cylinders.  The 1929 4 cylinder motor isn't exactly high compression.  40psi across all cylinders would be a real good runner.   At this point anything consistent would be OK so don't get hung up on a low compression reading.

For an old motor it would probably be best to drop the oil pan and pull the head and clean out as much goop as possible before you fire it up since you will have to wait for the distributor assembly.   If the motor spins free with the spark plugs out I would think that's a good sign.  Cylinder wear and edge ring might tell you how much life is left in the old motor.  Of course if it fired up that would be an even better indicator. 

Have fun,  Just my 2 cents

Chet…
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: SteveG on November 05, 2013, 03:47:49 AM
Dave,
I don't have any parts to help you out but, I will really enjoy your followup posts. Much to learn!
Good luck,
SteveG
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on November 05, 2013, 05:06:46 AM
Chet- Getting her fired up is always the first and most exciting thing to do !!  I really wanted to see if it had a knock or stuck ring and if I should just pull it right away and rip it down. Kind of wanted to get the brakes, clutch and fuel going so I could play a little while I decided how far to go with car. I haven't put a battery in, I'm a little wary of the wiring but with the hand crank it turns over freely even with the plugs in. Sounds and feels like it builds compression. 

Steve- Thanks. I'll make this my build thread and update what I'm working on. Its going to be slow going, I'm still setting up my work shop and collecting tools again. (moved this summer) I'm learning every time I look at this thing. I'll have a lot of question so thanks in advance guys

Dave

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Old Man on November 05, 2013, 03:49:59 PM
I've lost contact with the site but there is a repro site in Australia the makes a lot of Dodge and Plymouth stuff as well as other vehicles. And I believe one of the things they cast is the base for these Plymouth white metal distributor bases. I remember it was horrendously expensive,by my pocketbook, but it would be quicker. I think it was several $100 U.S. plus shipping from downunder. I think they use one of those new computer printer systems to image a part using a laser.   
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on November 10, 2013, 07:38:39 PM
I've lost contact with the site but there is a repro site in Australia the makes a lot of Dodge and Plymouth stuff as well as other vehicles. And I believe one of the things they cast is the base for these Plymouth white metal distributor bases. I remember it was horrendously expensive,by my pocketbook, but it would be quicker. I think it was several $100 U.S. plus shipping from downunder. I think they use one of those new computer printer systems to image a part using a laser.   

I found this on another site

 
Quote
I have a 29 Ply and also needed a distributor drive. If you will contact Tom Hannaford at Antique Auto Parts Cellar 718-335-1579 they make their version of this drive and housing. They have a whole new bronze cast base and gears for #395.00 He is well versed in this drive and can supply any needed info. Usually the original 90 deg. base is not usable because it was made of pot metal. THEIR gears and shaft only fit THEIR base. (job security I guess) Hope this helps. Happy Motoring!!!! - Rich

I just sent off my parts with my machinist friend yesterday, and hope to have an aluminum base in a week or two. If for some reason that does not work out I'll start digging into these sources. I'll post pictures of the machined base as the work gets done.
Title: History update
Post by: Crazydave on November 10, 2013, 07:53:13 PM
Last week I tracked down the owners contact info and left a message for him. Saturday I received a call back and he verified the cars history. Its been in his family since it was new, it came from New Germany MN and is indeed original. They had it running about 14, 15 years ago and that was when the distributor base broke.

I will stay in contact and keep him updated as progress moves forward. I pointed him toward this site, maybe he'll join.

How often do you find a car this old, in this good of shape and be able to track it to its beginning?  Great Story!
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: frankp on November 11, 2013, 01:42:30 AM
Dave, nice going on both fronts.  frank
Title: Time To Update
Post by: Crazydave on May 09, 2014, 01:23:50 AM
Now that the endless winter seems to have gone, motivation is back. (meaning instead of computer work, actually picking up wrenches)

I have spent the winter months searching for parts, have come close to acquiring what I need a couple of times put it never quite worked out. So i will be posting my master wishlist here and on the AACA soon.

Here's the first problem

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140430_183711.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140430_183711.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140508_180058.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140508_180058.jpg.html)

Its junk. As I cleaned the rust away, more and more holes appeared. I may just plumb the gas line through it and hide a pump and regulator so it looks stock but functions. Unless I find a new can before I want to run it. 
Title: Base
Post by: Crazydave on May 09, 2014, 01:40:35 AM
At the beginning of this thread, I posted the only real obstacle to me trying to get this thing running. I came close this winter to getting an original, but it never quite happened. 
Well check out the solution thanks to a friend of mine at Dahlheimer Machining Inc.
Is it a little too flashy? 

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG1485.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG1485.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG1487.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG1487.jpg.html)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG1486.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG1486.jpg.html)

I have a few things to get in order first, but will trying to wake her up soon. Frank agreed to come over and help with technical support and shoot video. If it goes will I'll put a video on youtube.

Also have a stuck throw out bearing so the trans will be coming out.

I'll try and keep this thread updated with the challenges and victory's that come with this project.

Current goal is to have it running, moving and braking in time for a nearby threshing show in August.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 09, 2014, 01:43:29 AM
And a big thanks to Frank for loaning me a base to measure from.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on May 09, 2014, 05:04:48 AM
Dave,

Really nice work.  A little black paint and the average person won't know the difference.   ;D

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 08, 2014, 01:34:21 AM
More fuel system work. Carb came apart easy, and really wasn't too dirty or in bad shape. Have to make a couple of gaskets and mount it back up.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140526_184756.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140526_184756.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 08, 2014, 01:40:18 AM
I need a new vacuum canister. I cleaned it (look at the first pics posted) but don't think I'll get it to stop leaking. I may try and make a new outside can and  use the inside can and float.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140520_192425.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140520_192425.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175202.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175202.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175219.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175219.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 08, 2014, 02:01:26 AM
I'm also taking out all of the braking system components and having them all rebuilt. Metal brake lines look good, so all the wheel cylinders, master cylinder and rubber hoses. There is a local place that rebuilds this stuff that has been brought up to me by a couple of people, time to give them a try. This stuff has all been coming apart pretty easily.

I believe I have a rear axle bearing out. Someone put a grease zerk in the rear axle nut cover, I believe this is why.

Drivers side
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175035.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175035.jpg.html)

Passenger Side
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175115.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175115.jpg.html)

You can see the rollers exposed and there is shaft play on that axle and not the other one. When its pushed in tight the slop is gone.
 Does anyone know right way to get this out? Book shows two bearings pressed back to back per side.



 
Title: Now things get ugly
Post by: Crazydave on June 08, 2014, 02:16:57 AM
Throw out bearing. This by far was the worst thing I have had to dig into on this car. It was a struggle to get the trans split from the bell housing. Then the rest hung up. Real bad.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_174749.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_174749.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_174851.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_174851.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_165041.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_165041.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_165123.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_165123.jpg.html)
Figure 13 Transmission main drive pinion bearing retainer. Broken.......... and the throw out bearing is stuck, well more like fused into one solid piece. Won't spin, won't move, its roached.

Anyone have a "Transmission main drive pinion bearing retainer" they care to sell?

Starting to figure out more and more why a lot of these get modern drive trains...............


Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Old Man on June 08, 2014, 03:22:18 AM
Just a note on the original brake lines. Believe it or not the industry ,or maybe just Chrysler, could not extrude a solid tube of steel for their brake lines. They are wrapped around like you would roll a piece of paper. The sheet of steel they used was thicker at one side and very thin at the other. The thin,knife edge, side is the outside of the brake line. If you want to prove the lines have been replaced with modern ones, cut off a small piece of line where you can reflute it if you have to. Then try and see if you can unwrap the piece. If you can, I would replace all the lines with modern extruded steel.   
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on June 08, 2014, 07:01:21 PM

I believe my 29 has copper lines and brass fittings ?

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 09, 2014, 03:00:13 AM
and the verdict is..................
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140608_195022.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140608_195022.jpg.html)

Copper. No signs of deterioration anywhere, I don't plan on running the car on public roads anytime soon, so I'll let it roll. 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: SteveG on June 09, 2014, 06:01:53 AM
"Throw out bearing. This by far was the worst thing I have had to dig into on this car. It was a struggle to get the trans split from the bell housing. Then the rest hung up. Real bad."

Dave,

I had the same problems with the pot metal bearing retainer. The problem being is that the it was made of soft metal and they didn't hold up.
I think Chrysler made them out of steel, perhaps starting in '29.

I searched for weeks on the net and finally gave up. Then I stopped by an old tranny shop and told my tale, The mechanic was aware of the problem and pulled out an old box of used retainers and I started trying to match one up.

I found one that was steel and matched up, except that it had a three hole flange instead of four.
A friend and I very carefully re-drilled and threaded the mounting holes gave it a coat of moly grease and it worked!

Unfortunately, I have no idea what make or model the old part came off of. I suspect it is a old Ford part. There is a better replacement out there somewhere. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I'll keep my eyes open for you.

Perhaps someone else on the forum can shed more light.

SteveG

 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Old Man on June 09, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
Yes sorry they are wrapped copper. I believe nickel plated originally. I do not know if Canadian and American production brake lines were the same or not. But if I were there I can actually tell by just looking. The line will have a pronounced line down the side of the tube and you can pick it up with a sharp small knife. You can also bend the line sharply and the tube will unfold and wrinkle att he sharp bend. Been there,done that. However I do not see the telltale line in your photo.
  BTW that battery cable is the original day 1 that came with the car in '29. Congratulations you're lucky most have been incorrectly replaced with 12 volt ones that are too thin and give starting problems. That's the original thick 6 volter that I think is even thicker than the 6 volt one you can get today.   
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 14, 2014, 04:52:35 AM
Steve,

I suspect the part you found may not be any easier to find then the original. After trying to remove whats left of the shaft from the collar? What ever the proper term is for what the fork pushes against and the throw bearing rides on, I have no interest in dealing with that aged cast piece and am having one made.

Old Man,

 Not much has been tampered with on this old thing.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 14, 2014, 05:08:23 AM
So if anyone is pulling a trans on one of these, (if stuck) I would try loosing the collar on the clutch petal and letting the forks twist back as you pull it may let the whole piece pull out without breaking the pinion bearing retainer
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140610_202740.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140610_202740.jpg.html)
I had to do this to get the bearing and collar out. Even with the piece out, in a vise, on bench I could not get it out. When I tried to twist it, it shattered without much pressure. Not much hope for removal, with out cutting the steel off it. After dealing with these, I have little hope for using original parts, so I am having one made and would expect not to have to deal with this again.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140610_202445.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140610_202445.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140610_202548.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140610_202548.jpg.html)
Title: Progress
Post by: Crazydave on July 14, 2014, 05:13:56 AM
Had major progress this weekend, but am running out of time to post details. Video tomorrow might just make my goal this summer yet!
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 15, 2014, 04:47:21 AM
Bypassed all factory wiring except the starter, robbed plug wires off of a spare V-8 i had laying around and got setup to do a trial start. Frank came over with some spare parts and procedural literature. Got everything setup and just couldn't get spark to the plugs, coil tested good ran out of day. Frank returned the following morning, with his spare cap and rotor, and bam instant spark. Go figure, those parts don't last 50 plus years. Sure is handy having an experienced Plymouth owner near by, with a garage full of extras.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140713_125009.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140713_125009.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 15, 2014, 05:02:55 AM
Got it setup with temporary gas, and it came right to life with no timing or carb adjustment. This video is 3 clips put together, first part is a generic description, second is the second start and 3 part is it just running. No video of the first start as I had no idea what was going to happen, it started smooth right to a low idle. What you will see here is the second attempt after we put some water in, and it started a little harder. Not bad, considering the only time it has ran since the 50's possibly 40's was long enough to break the distributor base.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvxgtM7Eac&list=UUsD_GDMw-C7P-CJzCNDkgdw
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: SteveG on July 15, 2014, 06:45:35 AM
Great Video!
I look forward to future posts.
Thank you,
SteveG
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on July 15, 2014, 04:04:01 PM
Great Job, Getting her to run for the first time is always an exciting thing.  Awake after a long nap.

Congratulations !!!  Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on July 16, 2014, 02:06:31 AM
Awesome video!  Also looking forward to seeing more.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29plycoop on July 22, 2014, 05:18:11 AM
Great photos of your new distributor base. Can you find out what the centerline spacing between the distributor bore and drive gear that was used.  Thanks Rich
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 25, 2014, 11:23:48 PM
 Thanks for the comments guys

Rich is this what your asking for? Not a real scientific way of measuring but I don't have the right tools to do. So I tired to get center to center and its seems to be 3/4" inches. After I run this thing for more than a couple of minutes, I'll take it out and and apart and check for wear. I still have some fit issues to deal with as far as the bolt holes go.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140722_200253.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140722_200253.jpg.html)

Title: Timing
Post by: Crazydave on July 26, 2014, 12:13:52 AM
There are a lot of discussions on getting the timing set on these old things. I thought of a little trick and maybe someone has said it or done it already on here and I missed it, but I'll repeat it anyway because it worked well. With the timing screw out we were measuring the piston position with a white brazing rod and a sharpie mark. Then to figure which stroke it is on, I grabbed the air hose and started filling the cylinder with air. Had air blowing out the starting cup and knew right where I was. Spun it to the correct position, dropped the shaft in, lined up number 1 and we were off to the races.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29plycoop on July 26, 2014, 06:26:54 AM
Dave - Thanks for the photo and dimension on your distributor base. I also re manufactured a base for my '29 and had to come up with that centerline figure. The spacing of the two gears is dependent on that dimension. As far as the mounting bolt spacing, mine was as follows; .343 dia Thru at 2.562 apart. From the bore one hole is spaced at 1.053 and the other way at 1.513.
As mentioned in a prior thread, the Q 1928 distributor gears run in the opposite direction of the 1929-1931. The gears are cut opposite and will not work in later distributors.
Good luck with your rebuild.  Rich
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 26, 2014, 03:27:34 PM
Thanks Rich I'll check the bolt spacing on that one (made 2) and see how close they are. The inside hole fits well, the outside binds as you tighten it up. Gear spacing seems to mesh well, but Ill check rubbing and wear after some run time. Same friend is in the process of making me a replacement pinion gear retainer. That should be easier to replicate.
Title: Original Keyed Coil
Post by: Crazydave on July 26, 2014, 04:49:02 PM
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140723_203037.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140723_203037.jpg.html)
When I got the car this was pulled out of the dash and in a box with other various parts. Original key would go in, but would not turn the tumbler. Got the car running with a different coil, but i want the original, so I tore it apart not knowing what the out come would be.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140714_204030.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140714_204030.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140714_205246.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140714_205246.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204149.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204149.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204630.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204630.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204639.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204639.jpg.html)


Title: Keyed Coiled
Post by: Crazydave on July 26, 2014, 05:07:27 PM
I was able to get it apart without much damage. I sanded and greased the pot metal where the disk turns, and also greased (dielectric or sli glide light weight stuff) where the tumbler assembly sits inside the pot metal. Its a little distorted and cracked so it was binding some.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204204.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204204.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140720_154959.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140720_154959.jpg.html)
Also polished up all the electrical contact points.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204647.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204647.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140720_144555.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140720_144555.jpg.html)
Got everything working nice and free on the bench, but putting it back together nice and tight is difficult, always fearing that metal base will shatter in my hands as I try and bend those tabs back down.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204711.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204711.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204659.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140715_204659.jpg.html)
Title: Keyed Coiled
Post by: Crazydave on July 26, 2014, 05:19:51 PM
So I get this thing all back together and go to try it out, wiring power to the batt terminal and timer to the distributor.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140723_203001.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140723_203001.jpg.html)
Get nothing no spark. I'm already scheming how I can attach a rotary switch to the back of the keyed and pot metal part of the ignition to make it function and appear stock. So I hadn't quite given up yet and head out to the garage with my fluke meter and start prodding. On my good coil I get about 1.5 ohms across - to +. Try it on the original batt to timer its open regardless of key position. Then I tried it from the gas gauge terminal to timer and get 1.5 ohms with the key on and open with it off. Wired it up temporary in the car, using the GAS GAGE terminal instead of BATT, coil wire to ground and open the points and zap! have strong spark! Now I'm off to see if she'll run on it, and see if I have a working generator. 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: SteveG on July 27, 2014, 12:57:20 AM
Dave,

Great find! I've never seen the switch/ coil combo.

My '22 has what looks like an original switch but is connected to a coil mounted thru the firewall.

Great posts. Keep 'em coming!

SteveG
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29plycoop on July 28, 2014, 05:08:57 AM
Thanks for the internals to the ignition switch. Very interesting. That pot metal is a real pain on all parts made with it. I managed to get my switch to work with a file and dielectric grease but it is a little tight.
Title: Progress Report 7-30-14
Post by: Crazydave on July 31, 2014, 05:13:10 AM
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140727_190945.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140727_190945.jpg.html)

Dash is complete as it should be. Car runs with the original coil. Generator and ammeter have been wired back into the circuit and with a short test everything appears to be working, get a discharge when cranking and when the coil is keyed on. Also shows charging up to around 10,11 while revving. That is all the wiring I need to function for my goal of the Threshing show. All accessory's will remain out until rewired. 2 1/2 weeks remain!!
Title: Brake reservoir
Post by: Crazydave on July 31, 2014, 05:16:40 AM
Found a new brake reservoir..........

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140727_184621.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140727_184621.jpg.html)

I'll make it work..............

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140729_205113.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140729_205113.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140729_205142.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140729_205142.jpg.html)
Title: Brakes New (Rebuilt) Parts
Post by: Crazydave on July 31, 2014, 05:23:06 AM
I brought them a box of rubble a week and a half ago, picked up these parts today.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193005.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193005.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193012.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193012.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193034.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193034.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193139.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193139.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193243.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193243.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193321.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_193321.jpg.html)

Still using the original hardware
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_205147.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140730_205147.jpg.html)

All parts where machined and sleeved with stainless. installation will start tomorrow...........
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on August 07, 2014, 12:45:14 AM
Well I'm getting closer. Brakes are in, but not juiced.  Remember reply #16 ? Well the driver side rear axle is out, and the outer bearing was gone. Not even a sign of a roller left in the tube. ( I suspect from a previous inspection by someone, scooped out the wreckage) This damaged the inside bearing cup, which I had to have pressed off anyway, to measure/identify the bearing for replacement. So I have ordered all new cups and bearings since it is apart.

I'll post modern part numbers, the shop and cost if you guys want. I hope to cross reference that felt axle oil seal. Passenger side looks like it leaks, will be a winter project.
So I'll scramble to get this rig rolling, play with it for 3 weeks and then rip it all down again lol At least its easy.........................

I intend to update with pictures, tools and techniques but it takes time to pull them off the phone, host them and post them. I see I have some broken links to fix on the previous page as well.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on August 07, 2014, 02:30:00 AM
Thanks for posting your progress and photos.  I enjoy following this thread.

Ted
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on August 07, 2014, 03:46:40 AM
Thanks. Hope it helps some guys out, or at least makes them less afraid to tackle something they where reluctant to take on.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29plycoop on August 07, 2014, 03:54:33 AM
Dave- keep up the great work. Will be waiting for your thread with photos when time permits. Enjoy the adventure.  Happy Motoring! - Rich
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on August 07, 2014, 01:30:43 PM
Hi Dave,

Nice work and pictures.    Thanks for posting,   Chet...    :)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on February 07, 2015, 11:44:05 PM
Dave:

I have a question regarding your replicated distributor drive housing.  Can you tell me, or do you remember, how much play (if any) there was with the drive gear?  Is it in the housing fairly flush and no "back and forth" play?

The reason I'm asking is that my timing keeps jumping and I believe my problem lies in the play with my distributor drive and/or my distributor.  I think it's more my drive play, which is about 1/16" which allows the drive to move back and forth.  I believe if I close this gap with a shim or two, it might help and keep the drive in one position while turning freely.

Please let me know if you can.

Ted
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 08, 2015, 01:30:07 AM
It's funny you bumped this thread today, I was just getting ready to revive it.

If you look at the first picture on the first page of this thread, you will see I have a distributor that is a mirror image of the one the 29's use and it is in very good shape. I will dig it out and check that one. I also plan on pulling the one I had made soon, to see how its doing, check for wear etc. We can reference that as well.

Dave:

I have a question regarding your replicated distributor drive housing.  Can you tell me, or do you remember, how much play (if any) there was with the drive gear?  Is it in the housing fairly flush and no "back and forth" play?

The reason I'm asking is that my timing keeps jumping and I believe my problem lies in the play with my distributor drive and/or my distributor.  I think it's more my drive play, which is about 1/16" which allows the drive to move back and forth.  I believe if I close this gap with a shim or two, it might help and keep the drive in one position while turning freely.

Please let me know if you can.

Ted
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on February 08, 2015, 04:05:32 AM
Thanks, let me know as soon as you have a chance to look at it.  The housing drive play is my concern, although my distributor has a little axial/vertical play as well.  I'm working on mine this week.  It's ironic that I too have a spare distributor from a '28 for parts with the gear that is opposite of the '29.

If you have a chance, take a look at my thread "Time to get into the motor" to see what I'm having problems with.

Ted
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 01:17:34 AM
Ok, time to try and get this thread up to speed. It will be tough to remember all the details, but lots of pictures should tell the story. I went back and fixed the broken links on the previous pages as well.

Resolution on the pinion gear retainer. After seeing how difficult it is to deal with that old pot, I decided I didn't even want to deal with it again. Especially on a piece that no one will see. Answer is below. Thanks goes to Frank again for loaning me his broken one, (which is far less trashed than mine) for a pattern to reproduce.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG2117.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG2117.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG2119.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMAG2119.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 01:27:10 AM
Believe it or not, inside the retainer shaft there was a piece of waxy cardboard. It slid down right to the those oil rings. Factory piece to help retain the trans oil? Frank took a picture I don't have one, maybe he will post it. So the rest of the piece got machined, with the little relief for the oil to splash into the dome. I ended up adjusting the final fit by removing material on the outside edge for clearance with a sand wheel on a disc grinder.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_214613.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_214613.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_183451.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_183451.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_183527.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_183527.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 02:23:16 AM
Remember this? I pulled the axle out with one yank hand, using only my hand.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175035.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140607_175035.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140803_212754.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140803_212754.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200347.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200347.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200353.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200353.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200407.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200407.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 02:27:21 AM
The outer bearing cup was beat up pretty bad. No trace of a roller. Had I chose to try and drive this car without addressing this, the axle would have likely walked right out, leaving me a 3 wheeler.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140803_212735.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140803_212735.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200947.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200947.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200934.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140805_200934.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: frankp on February 15, 2015, 05:53:12 AM
Here's the waxy cardboard.  Thanks for reminding me of the picture.  Anyone find it in a drawing or the parts list?

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 05:19:01 PM
Thanks Frank. It seems to fit a little too perfect for someone to just find a random cardboard tube, and slide it on the input shaft. I put it back on  ;)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 06:12:52 PM
So at this point I have the axle and all the bearing components taken out. It had two shims in there, but I can't see how they make much difference. I don't know how or what the correct procedure and tool you are suppose to use to get that inside tapered bearing (race?) back in the axle tube. I suppose you need a piece of pipe exactly the inside diameter of the axle tube, to ensure you are pounding it in evenly. I cut a piece of wood and made it work.

Now to find bearings. I was told about this place by a friend. He and his dad restored a few antique tractors, and when ever they couldn't get a replacement seal or bearing they went here.
http://www.cutter-sales.com       They can pretty much get anything, if its available. By cross reference or by measuring. They can also get any of the old seals, felt replacement etc. I had new bearings within 48 hours.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/1373116e-52e0-4622-926b-af4a75175b51.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/1373116e-52e0-4622-926b-af4a75175b51.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_143048.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_143048.jpg.html)
Doesn't this look better?
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_143707.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140809_143707.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 15, 2015, 06:28:31 PM
This pretty much sums up the battle to get her reliable and driving around for the show last August. Still rolling on old rubber, which quickly started to disintegrate as a few miles where logged. A quickly rerouted fuel system with an internally regulated electric fuel pump in place of the vacuum canister. I think this is going to stay, as I doubt I will find a tank in good shape anytime soon. They also have reliability issues so I want to plumb right through it to make it look original, but have the more reliable fuel pump hidden down in the frame rail. A few more pictures from last fall.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140816_110703.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140816_110703.jpg.html)

Out at the farm, driving on period current roads  ;D
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140907_110930.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20140907_110930.jpg.html)

Tucked in for the winter with a new room mate. 47 Minneapolis Moline RTU
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20141014_183203.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20141014_183203.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Doug on February 15, 2015, 09:24:17 PM
Your car looks great. My car was a Survivor like yours. The previous owner painted and upholstered it. I have pictures of it before. On your fuel pump, Someone had changed mine to a Stewart fuel feed. The last owner took it off in favor of an electric. I have changed it back. Stewart pumps show up on Ebay often. Your carburetor will like the gravity fuel feed better than electric. Keep up the good work.   
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 17, 2015, 01:22:38 AM
Your car looks great. My car was a Survivor like yours. The previous owner painted and upholstered it. I have pictures of it before. On your fuel pump, Someone had changed mine to a Stewart fuel feed. The last owner took it off in favor of an electric. I have changed it back. Stewart pumps show up on Ebay often. Your carburetor will like the gravity fuel feed better than electric. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, Doug. 

How does the car run different between the 2 fuel systems? I had some concern about pushing fuel to a gravity feed carb, thought it may push through the needle and seat. I was thinking of a way to plumb in a bypass and/or limit the flow with a needle valve (its internally regulated) to try and find the right pressure. (I know get a low pressure regulator) I tried it just the way it came and haven't had any troubles. I mounted it in the passenger side frame rail, near the outlet of the tank with a filter on the inlet. I will post the description from the ebay ad below. Any thoughts on other converted cars about what the proper pressure is or negative effects of running an electric pump? It is 6 volt.

"This In-line electric fuel pumps provide the needed amount of fuel whenever the engine demands it. This pump has a shut off pressure of 2.5 to 4 PSI at no flow conditions and will deliver 40 GPH at wide open. Comes with 1/8" pipe fittings, and 2 nipples to connect the common 5/16 gas hose. Can be used on positive ground systems, as there is separate connections for both positive and negative."

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on February 17, 2015, 01:50:31 PM
Where'd all the distributor drive photos go?
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on February 17, 2015, 01:54:36 PM
^^^Disregard, they're on the other thread :)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Doug on February 17, 2015, 03:41:08 PM
Don't get me wrong here. Didn't say it would run better, Just that the carb would like it. Gravity feed is a constant smooth flow, Electric with a regulator will pulse. Carb is much easier to tune with gravity. I know a lot of guys go electric and make it work, I like the vacuum Tank. When you get it working there is no maintenance, no electric draw, just drive. My thoughts.   
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 17, 2015, 07:49:36 PM
I would like to keep it as original as possible, and I hope to find a Kingston vacuum canister some day. I was just wondering what differences you experienced. For now if/when I get it on the real road and not just playgrounds I feel a little better with some pressure and a filter with all the crud I know is in the tank. I have heard dirt, rust, sediment can stop the cans from functioning fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Doug on February 17, 2015, 10:09:14 PM
The PO of my car had it running on an electric pump with a two gallon gas can in the rear floor board. You didn't go far. The tank was solid, so I took it out and cleaned it. I have various ways of cleaning fuel tanks. He gave me a Stewart pump that had been in the car. I cleaned it up worked great. The owner before him had it running off the intake. If you look up Stewart Fuel Feed you can find out all about this. I kept trying to get it to run off the oil pump. Found a larger capacity Stewart pump on ebay at a good deal, Put it on kept fooling around with the pluming, It's not original, but it all works. Just have to rebuild my windshield wiper. It runs all day. When I was trying to get the electric pump to work I would get the pressure low enough to idle with out flooding then I wouldn't have enough to run down the road. I switched from an impulse pump to a vain pump that helped but I found the vacuum the way to go. Still have the vain pump under the car just in case. Haven't needed it in Years.   The Kingston pump is right for the car. Hard to find. Stewart pumps are period correct,    And you can fined them.   My car is not a show car I just have fun with it 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 18, 2015, 12:55:35 AM
I flushed my tank the best I could (In a hurry) with compressed air and fresh gas. I haven't had any noticeable issues with the electric pump. It idles down real nice and I have had it around the block (maybe 35 mph) and across the field a few times. I play with the choke a little until its warmed up, then it seems good on the top and bottom. Considering I have put little effort into tuning and optimizing the timing. Its nice to have Franks to compare it to, his is setup correctly.     
Maybe I can get him to race me...  ::) ;D Do you think anyone would notice ? Or would they just honk and try to get around us lol
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 18, 2015, 01:04:27 AM
Goals for this year;

Get the car rewired and street legal.

Get new tires and safety check all the wheel bearings, hubs and spokes.

Get a new top, and all of the roof wood repaired.

Find and repair the source of my water leak.

Started tear down.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150207_163749.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150207_163749.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150207_163806.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150207_163806.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150207_163825.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150207_163825.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on February 18, 2015, 03:00:28 PM
Hi Dave,

It looks like you are moving along.  Just a couple of questions about your project.

On the rewire are you going to use a premade harness and are you going to wire in turn signals? 
Is your restoration focused on originality or functionality and safety?

Hopefully I can finally start on my this summer.  I haven't decided yet where I am going to draw the line.

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on February 18, 2015, 05:05:56 PM

Well Chet, I haven't really thought out a long term plan. Just want to be able to run it on the road if I want. I was unaware that we can buy wiring harnesses for these cars. I was going to pull the wiring out and redo it section by section, but would be open to looking at a harness. Especially if it had all the connectors for lights, brake switch etc. Maybe well worth time savings. Got a link to a vendor?

I want to keep it as original as possible, I like it being a time capsule of sorts. Judging by the reactions I got at the show I went to (I understand I may receive a different reaction at a tractor show vs. a car show) people are drawn to car that looks like it has a story to tell. How can that thing be untouched for 85 years? (plus its a lot cheaper to leave it  :) )

I'll pass on the turn the signals for now, it would be different if I was planning on long road trips but I'm not. I would how ever like to be able to through the wife and kid in for a few short trips so I should consider replacing the windshield glass at a minimum.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on February 18, 2015, 05:54:49 PM
Dave,

I think you have the right idea.  Looking at a factory fresh 1920’s car is a curiosity but I must say that I am drawn to that beat up old survivor that shows real character.   You can almost picture all the hard times and years that the car and its owners have gone through.   My car on the other hand has been poorly restored many years ago and needs to be redone.   I will try to keep as much of it original and leave the old interior.  I guess once I get into it.., the work will decide where it needs to go.  Mechanical reliability is a must.

As far as the wiring harness goes I know somebody makes it and it has been discussed on this site so hopefully someone will chime in with the vender info.   

Chet…
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: frankp on February 20, 2015, 11:20:10 PM
At least one source for a wiring harness plus other goodies

http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/

I may take Dave up on that race this summer, IF my needed repairs get done.  (think a replacement gearshift assembly.  Mine has a lot of play compared to Dave's)  Better find a little used roads for these screamers!

All this talk has me wanting to get to work, but couldn't do much anyway.  Rehab is going well, but it takes time to get the bones healed, so say the Drs.

frank
Title: Topless
Post by: Crazydave on February 26, 2015, 04:06:07 PM
Last weekend Frank and I peeled off some history. Behold an original 29 roof complete with chalk marks.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175001.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175001.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175649.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175649.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175306.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175306.jpg.html)
Over Spray
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175502.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175502.jpg.html)
Chalk Marks
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175322.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175322.jpg.html)
Look where the headliner is attached to the bows
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175233.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175233.jpg.html)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175046.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_175046.jpg.html)
Hitch Hiker Found
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_165735.jpg) (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/crazydave4455/media/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150221_165735.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on February 26, 2015, 07:25:21 PM
Thanks Dave,

These are great photos.  I need to completely restore my car's roof and I have very little left of the original wood.  Along with other threads showing similar information I think I will be ready to tackle this soon.  I hope I get the slope right.

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on February 27, 2015, 12:23:00 AM
Great photos indeed!
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on December 28, 2015, 12:36:25 AM
Time to update, while I have a little time. Back to this summer.....

I see I left off with some goals for the year, didn't quite get them all (most) done. It still does not have a top, or new wiring.......

While pulling the radiator out I noticed the lower boot was split on the bottom side toward the front. Hard to see, and the water would have ran to the bottom of the rad shell and dripped as it was. So I cut all new boots and filled radiator to check for leaks.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150519_195250.jpg)
Just capped and filled no pressure, no leaks. This lasted about 4 trips until the dripping came back, so out it comes again. Also fixed a mount for the shell.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150803_153922.jpg)
Almost had to go to an ag dealer to find hose large enough in diameter, for cutting the new boots. Always bring a tape measure on a parts run....
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on December 28, 2015, 12:57:09 AM
I pulled all the wheels, inspected and replaced bearings if needed (one outer front) and even pulled the drum off of one wheel and gave them all a good inspection. Wood is solid and tight.

Time to get the credit card out....
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150803_153717.jpg)

Coker was great to deal with, got setup and shipped no problems. 20" tires seem to be harder to find and less selection.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150724_195818.jpg)

Again Frank to the resuce with the right tool for the job and literature to boot....

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150803_153732.jpg)

I quickly decided that I must possess one of these tools and jumped on Ebay and grabbed what was available, not as great as Franks, but it works!

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150724_200233.jpg)

The last owner started the attempt to get this car back to its former glory, and put new tubes and flaps in but left the old rubber. After a short 10 minute learning curve, I was changing these out quite quickly. I might have been a hell of a mechanic about 70 years ago...... 8)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150809_151110%201.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150809_133619%201.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150809_183357%201.jpg)

I cleaned the rims up the and painted them while apart. Not too bad of a project.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on December 28, 2015, 03:34:55 AM
Hi Dave,

It looks like you have taken advantage of some locally nice weather.   72 here this afternoon crazy for December 27th.

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on December 28, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
I'm trying to catch a up summers worth of activity, unfortunately that was likely from July. Currently sitting at 9 above... but it has been mild here as well this winter.

The story will continue... when get some more time to load pictures etc. 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on December 29, 2015, 05:58:34 PM
Looking good...keep the posts coming!
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 07, 2017, 11:04:39 PM
Looks like its been a while, I'll try and get this thread caught up. The last 1.5 to 2 years have been very demanding at work. Not leaving a lot of time for this kind of recreation. So lets start were we left off...

Summer 2015

Just get all new rubber and tubes on the old Gal, just in time for my local Threshing show. (Always seems to be my motivation to actually get any work done on this car last minute) Since the front was apart I did a few other small things, one of which was take a closer look at the home made distributor base and got the other bolt in it to help hold it down. Much easier to see how the holes line up when you can get a straight on look. She started right up like always, it had been sitting a number of months and off to daycare I went to pick the kiddo up. (Just in a neighboring neighborhood)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150821_153042.jpg)

This was a moment before it happened.....(Isn't that car a site?)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 07, 2017, 11:30:59 PM
Around the corner I went, making a slight timing adjust with cable (always looking for the perfect tune) and it just dies. Like you turned the key off. Get it home and off the road by means of my wife pulling me with the golf car through the neighbors yard. Start trouble shooting and find this.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150821_161001.jpg)

That's a problem. By tightening that base down, the aluminum must of distorted and caused the shaft to bind, then break. The slot on the end is offset and the mounting bolts go in at a slight angle.
So I tried to make one, but lack proper equipment.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150908_201410.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20150912_133605.jpg)

But I had that other base that was a mirror image of the one I needed. Took it apart and the shafts were the same. But the drive tab had descent bend to it, I suspect it was installed 180 degrees off in a previous life and I was a little scared to try and straighten it. I installed it both ways and it wobbled the base and had an audible timing change while it was running. So I put it in the vise and gave it a shot. Got it straight and running how it was. This was of course after the show was over..... 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 08, 2017, 12:04:58 AM
December 2015

I find out someone is street rodding a 29 ply couple. And he is located in the neighboring southern state about a 3 to 3.5 hour drive.  Off I go with Frank as a co-pilot. Pickup most engine compartment stuff he will part with, long block and trans. And 2 key pieces I desired. An original distributor base!! And a Kingston vacuum canister in good condition.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20151205_184611.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20151205_184739.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20151205_184459.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 08, 2017, 12:39:59 AM
Progress is slow in 2016. Working a lot. Still playing with car. Take it to the park or around for short drives with kids, family etc. They get a kick out of it. And its in a condition where I don't have much concern about people climbing all over it. It serves its purpose as an old car that is more than looks. (not taking a shot at anyone, more so defending my cheapness to not make it nice :) )

So here we come up on that summer Threshing show again. Car is tuned and reliable enough I can cold start it with the crank. Have little concern about its reliability. But up until this point it has done short low speed runs. First 2 days of the show it rained like hell. But Sunday it was nice and sunny, so I decide hey, lets drive her the 8-10 miles to it. Get out on a faster county road and set sail with a trusty Iphone with a GPS app as a speedometer with a top speed set in the mid 40's. Sure be nice to have a tach in this thing. Actually giving the car a real work out tells me she is tired (lots of smoke at higher rpms) and probably has never been opened up or overhauled.(which I can confirm at least back to early 50's) Get on the top side of a hill and lift off the pedal a bit to keep the RPMs in check, unload the motor a bit and ting ting bing. Instantly the motor tone changes, I can tell I lost a cylinder. Get pulled on a side road. No clanging, no oil still running but poorly. Pedal this thing home as fast as I can. No power, doesn't sound good and I have my doubts it will start again if I let it die. Garage and go to the show. Curiosity gets me later that night, pull all the plugs out. Turn it over with the crank. Notice nothing out of the ordinary, time to check the compression.  #4 75 PSI   #3 50 PSI   #2 0 PSI   #1 60 PSI.

Hmm see a problem  ???

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_0786.jpg)

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 08, 2017, 12:58:09 AM
Fiddled with that stuck intake valve and it snapped right back in to place. Threw the cover on and finished the summer out.

Questions- You could see how dirty that thing is, is there a good way to flush it? Currently I am running detergent motor oil in an effort to slowly clean it. ( I Think ?)

Do you think just being full of crude made the valve stick? Dirty guide? Weak spring? Bent valve? What should be the top safe RPM for this thing? Makes me gun shy to go any distance at a higher speed.

What would be considered a healthy compression reading on these motors?


So the car is still currently topless, I plan on ordering a wiring harness shortly. Need to fix a radiator leak. Have some original parts I have been working, I'll get that original base installed and reluctantly change it back to vacuum canister. The reliability worries me, the electric pump I put on has been rock solid no issues. But this car will be primarily on a trailer. And originality is a duty, of the finder of a survivor. 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on January 08, 2017, 03:32:27 AM
Looking good Dave . Keep backing as close to original ,a little a time . I would use the electric pump and solve one problem at a time . All the specs for your engine and chassis are on the  " Plymouth ,The First Decades " web site . It has great info .
                Tom
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on January 08, 2017, 03:40:13 AM
Dave two other comments I have . Gates still makes the 2-1/16 rad hoses that looks like wrapped material, as originals .  Looking at from a distance your using hose clamps . If you need some original wire ones let me know the exact size . I am willing to contribute to your cause .
                                                            Great Work   Tom
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on January 08, 2017, 04:21:41 AM

Do you think just being full of crude made the valve stick? Dirty guide? Weak spring? Bent valve? What should be the top safe RPM for this thing? Makes me gun shy to go any distance at a higher speed.

What would be considered a healthy compression reading on these motors? [/i]

So the car is still currently topless, I plan on ordering a wiring harness shortly. Need to fix a radiator leak. Have some original parts I have been working, I'll get that original base installed and reluctantly change it back to vacuum canister. The reliability worries me, the electric pump I put on has been rock solid no issues. But this car will be primarily on a trailer. And originality is a duty, of the finder of a survivor.

Hay Dave,  enjoyed reading all your posts.  As far as the stuck valve, any and all the things you mentioned could be contributing factors.  Based on your adventure I think the stem was just gunked up and hadn't seen that level of speed in a great number of years.  These flatheads are not good engines for high RPMs.  The BHP is only rated as 34hp @ 2,800 rpms.  Hitting 45 mph with the GPS is close to your limit.  Add a down hill and you are doing 50mph.  Very scary in these old cars especially on wooden wheels.   :o

My car can cruise all day at 35 - 40 mph but the engine sounds best around 35 mph.  Probably 1500 - 2K rpms.

You can leave the electric pump in-line and use it to prime the car if your vacuum pump runs short.

I know how hard it is to work a full time job and try to do a car restoration.  I spent 10 years on my 48 and there are still plenty of things left to be finished.  Maybe get to them someday when I have nothing else to do.

Cheers,  Chet...

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 08, 2017, 06:25:33 AM
Thanks Tom. I have the correct clamps on the shelf, I think they wouldn't reach around the new hose as its quite a bit thicker. I'll have to look up the gates hoses.

Chet, I fully agree with the 35-40 MPH range. You have to be pretty attentive at 40, with how soft they are sprung. (At least mine feels like a horse carriage) When I did the tires, I checked the wheels out thoroughly. Even pulled a drum or 2 off. Amazing how tight they got them and how they hold up. I am more concerned about getting hit by someone not paying attention, not much structure in these old things. That is why the kid only rides around in the neighborhood and at the farm and shows. It also still has that nice thick plate glass......



Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on January 08, 2017, 04:39:38 PM
Yes ,  Roberts sells small piece # T103 @ $11  is 2-1/8" my mistake . Gate number is 24034 but 3' long on ebay .
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: frankp on January 09, 2017, 01:03:49 AM
Great summary Dave.  I'll be needing that hose and clamps for the roadster.   Used to get hose at the local one-man repair shop a few blocks away.  Gettin' too old!  frank
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 09, 2017, 02:26:07 AM
Gates part #24034 - Comes in variety of prices from $53 on ebay to $33 on amazon and $36 at Jegs.(for one) But looks like Rock Auto sells them in 3 packs for 27.69 each.

When I got the hose that's on there now, I had to go to back rack of the parts store with a tape measure.....after they insisted that they needed to look up the car model and year...

http://www.rockauto.com/en/cart

http://www.jegs.com/i/Gates/465/24034/10002/-1
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on January 09, 2017, 02:37:49 AM
Frank , same offer good for you if you need original clamps .
                                                Tom
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on January 09, 2017, 03:59:36 PM
Tom - I could use some original hose clamps too if you have enough...please let me know...thanks!  Just let me know cost, etc.

Ted
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on January 09, 2017, 05:37:59 PM
Dave,

I really like the trunk on your car.  Was that original when you got the car or did you add it.  I didn't notice it in past posts.  Very Nice.!!

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 09, 2017, 06:19:58 PM
Tom - I could use some original hose clamps too if you have enough...please let me know...thanks!  Just let me know cost, etc.

Ted

FYI They are manufactured and available from a number sources if needed.

http://antique-tractor-parts.steinertractor.com/tractor/2-Wire-Hose-Clamps
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 09, 2017, 06:31:14 PM
Dave,

I really like the trunk on your car.  Was that original when you got the car or did you add it.  I didn't notice it in past posts.  Very Nice.!!

Chet...

Was there, and the paint and pinstripe and faded accordingly. I have even used when I have ran up to the gas station (just because). I have collected few old treasures from the farm to throw in there for shows.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20151011_130729.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: frankp on January 09, 2017, 07:42:40 PM
Dave/Chet,  Re: trunk.  not to butt in, butt...  from AACA.  Trunk intrigued me from the get-go.

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/208124-kari-keen-karrier-luggage-trunk/

Tom, thanks for the offer on the clamps.  I won't be doing anything for another 6 months.  I'll check Dave's website, too.

frank

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on January 09, 2017, 09:01:05 PM
Stole from Franks link........

(http://www.atticpaper.com/prodimages/101809_A/karikeen.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on January 10, 2017, 12:07:24 AM
No problem , I could not find that proper wire clamps when I was looking . So bought a pile of NOS stock . Ted pm me with exact O.D. ,as they do not have much adjustment in . Also mine are varying in finish , some rust , but do have straight slot screw . Give size and quantity , I'll send you pic of what I have .
                                          Tom
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on January 10, 2017, 12:55:50 AM
Stole from Franks link........

Very Cool !!!  Now I have another thing to keep an eye out for.  Kari-Keen  I like the one in the ad with the spear tire behind the trunk.  It looks like the spear folds down like yours does ?  What a great old survivor. 

Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on April 28, 2017, 03:32:49 AM
Few things to report. Been scratching away at the parts needed to continue to make er original again. Looking for some warm weather and dry a ground ( farm testing, skipping the road for now) to convert back to an original vacuum canister.

Been cleaning up and inspecting the original base I got the other fall. Its about ready to go in.
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1044.jpg)

Finally ordered the wiring harness, might be here in 6 to 10 weeks lol. Ended up going with Ynz. This should get me going again...


Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on May 02, 2017, 11:21:13 PM
Dave, let us know what you think of the wire harness.  I need to order one for my car but I am just not there yet.  Do they give you the option for adding wiring for turn signals?
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 03, 2017, 10:42:52 PM
Yes. Ynz had options for add on's. They also offer lifetime support for their customers.

Other vendor info. Not ripping them, just my reasons for not choosing to use them.

I tried called harnesses unlimited. They don't/won't answer their phone (leave a message only) or take web orders. Mail order forms only. I didn't like not being able to ask questions or get confirmations.

Called Rhode Island. Sounded like a quality shop, but I would have had to tag and send my harness to them, for them to model a new one. More time and effort than I wanted to spend. Think she said after all of that if you didn't like the price they would send the harness back no cost.

Ynz answered their phone, answered questions, have done a 29 sedan before, offer lifetime support and will take a CC order over the phone. Winner....

Will update with pictures and install when it arrives.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on May 04, 2017, 06:39:38 AM

Sounds great Dave,  I think you made the right choice.  Please post more info once you get the harness.

Many thanks, Chet...

PS... Do I have the info correct:

 YnZs Yesterdays Parts
 333 E. Stuart Ave. Unit A
 Redlands, CA 92374
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 04, 2017, 11:20:59 PM

Sounds great Dave,  I think you made the right choice.  Please post more info once you get the harness.

Many thanks, Chet...

PS... Do I have the info correct:

 YnZs Yesterdays Parts
 333 E. Stuart Ave. Unit A
 Redlands, CA 92374

Looks right.

Their site http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/

Harness list http://www.ynzyesterdaysparts.com/pdfs/Plymouth.pdf
Title: Wiring Teaser
Post by: Crazydave on May 28, 2017, 03:45:15 AM
Look what showed up today....

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20170527_200041.jpg)

Quick glance, looks good. Well tagged. I will have to reuse some pieces , like the bakelite(?) headlight connectors.

Will get into details when I start to install.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 28, 2017, 04:03:46 AM
Starting digging into my wood repair, some of it is a littler further gone than slapping some wood putty on it. (all though it would probably get me by)
The front piece in the pictures below is pretty bad on the passenger side. I think I can get it all apart with out too much struggle. I can pull the screws in the bows, pull the metal strips on the ends off and pull the whole room top (bows & slats) as one assembly and get at the other pieces easier for inspection and repair. Plus to do the headliner right, it show come out anyway.

What would you guys do? Pull the piece, remove the rot form, fill and sand?

Or try and remake the piece? There is enough of it there to get accurate measurements?  Problem with option, is I lack the tools and techniques to get it right. It is one piece, with lots of scary curves, and pieces......

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20170527_200127.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20170527_200203.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20170527_200217.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on May 29, 2017, 04:30:59 PM
You know Dave I have to make every single piece of that same roof and I have no original wood to go by, nothing but pictures.  Do you have any pictures of the interior front & rear without the headliner in place.

If you were up to it I might have to make a trip out your way to do a little research.  It might be beneficial to both of us.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 29, 2017, 05:58:36 PM
If a trip out is worth it to you, I would be happy to have you out. Will just have to coordinate a good time and take a few days off. We can trade numbers in PM or Email.

Headliner is in yet, I didn't get too crazy tearing it all apart. Will take a few more pictures.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 19, 2017, 02:50:25 AM
Prepping for wiring. Uncovered the Clum switch, literally just the outline of it showing. It was so covered in years of grease and blow by, I felt like an archaeologist. Got it out, cleaned up grabbed my fluke and Ohmed out all switch positions to make sure they were good. Checked the connections to the wiring diagrams. Pictures below for those who may not have seen one, or just like lots of pictures.  :)

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1116.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1117.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1118.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 19, 2017, 02:57:21 AM
First problem. New wiring kit comes with smaller connectors for the headlight plug ins, they fall through. Old ones were crimped and were not intended to be reused. I tried to expand them, but they are splitting. Anybody know off hand a place to find replacements? (maybe a ford part, same headlamps) I'll give a look at a few catalogs, but will probably just try and solder them together.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1120.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1121.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 19, 2017, 03:02:07 AM
Vacuum Pump - Cleaned up the Kingston can I picked up the other year,(best I could) Frank left me some Red-Kote. So I coated the seams and left it to dry.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20170614_195542.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/20170614_195557.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 19, 2017, 03:20:02 AM
The other week I was cruising around the neighborhood and luckily it happened when I was back in my yard the car just quit. Spark related. Hadn't happened before. Checked the basics, found no issues was leaning toward that old original coil I had repaired. (see earlier in the thread) Neighbor helped me get it back in the a garage, but the cause was bugging me. Grabbed another coil of off the shelf wired it in quick, car started right up. Patted myself on the back and though what a great mechanic I would of been back in the thirties. Happen to find a new old stock coil on ebay bought it up. Figured I had a working key and top pot metal part, I would be back in business and still original in short order.

The next week Frank was over. I was pulling a few things apart, assuming that coil was junk asked him should I try it one more time before I yank it out?    Sure!   ....car fired right up..... Puzzled I asked if he was feeling brave? and off on a successful test drive we went. I don't know what happened, I am just going to rewire it and hope for the best. Guess its best to have a spare one of everything you can find...but hey I got a new coil. Tabs aren't even bent.

(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1126.jpg)
(http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr28/crazydave4455/1929%20Plymouth%20U/IMG_1124.jpg)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29UJohn on June 19, 2017, 05:12:52 AM
Regarding the headlight plugs, the Ford plugs do not interchange.  However, you could use the Ford plugs if you also install Ford components in the headlight.
I was able to reuse my plug brass wire ends, but that was 40 years ago.
You might be able to solder them and make them work even if slightly damaged.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on June 19, 2017, 01:04:45 PM
Try Chevy , The Filling Station online has . They fit my '31 Twilights . It is already on pig tail on ends needed .
                      tom
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29UJohn on June 20, 2017, 01:09:38 AM
I see part number H-2 on page 287. Is that the correct part?
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on June 20, 2017, 02:50:22 AM
Yes , HL-2 is three wire . I had to sand a few thousand off dia. to fit in my existing metal covers .No big deal .  Other parts match to Twilight internals .
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 28, 2017, 04:00:00 PM
I ended up cutting the crimp off flat, drilled and soldered on the new connectors. Slowly installing sections of the new harness. Should be able to make some progress this weekend.

Can anyone recommend a good source for bulbs and correct plug wires? Filling station? (I didn't look through the catalog yet)
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Articifer Tom on June 29, 2017, 02:36:47 AM
Danm ! That was a good idea . Wish I'd though of that ...  O'well Since there was some nice close up of the clum switches here figure  I adds internal pics

Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on June 29, 2017, 10:38:13 PM
Thanks for the picture. I was getting curious and there was a little play in the switch tempting me, but it it tested out. And if its not broke I figured I better not fix until it was ....
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on July 14, 2017, 09:14:37 PM
I got the car rewired all exterior lights working.

The wiring harness was missing wire for the dome light, not sure if I am going to just run the modern wire ( it will be hidden) or wait until i order some other items and get the cotton wrap.

I ran across this site catalog here > http://restorationstuff.com/pdf/RestorationSupplyCompany.pdf

It has a lot of good stuff, I haven't found on other sites. Including bulbs and those brass buttons I was looking for.

Also the file host i was using to post pictures changed their policy so I have find a new way. You may have noticed a lot of pages in this thread are missing pictures.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Des28Qau on July 17, 2017, 01:01:27 PM
Hi Guys,
Pantastic link, " Restoration Supply Company " catalog , Thankyou .
Maybe it could be added to " Sources for hard to find parts ". to make link easer to find in the future .
Regards Des.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on July 17, 2017, 05:12:37 PM
Hi Guys,
Pantastic link, " Restoration Supply Company " catalog , Thankyou .
Maybe it could be added to " Sources for hard to find parts ". to make link easer to find in the future .
Regards Des.

Done !!!
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: 29UJohn on January 10, 2018, 03:47:43 AM
There is a fellow that makes the original style hose clamps any size you want for a very reasonable price.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on April 29, 2018, 11:33:49 PM
I haven't forgotten about my thread and now I have all my pictures brought over to Chet's photo site, so its a matter of many hours to get the images re-linked from the new host.

Car was rewired last summer, I found someone willing to work on the honeycomb radiator this winter. Most shops will not touch one. I put that in last week, so far no leaks. Also swapped out the homemade distributor base for the original I got with with some spare parts.

I am wondering how much blow by you guys are seeing on your engines. I would assume mine is original, and nearly worn out. There is a lot of build up in the engine compartment so it has been doing that for quite some time in its earlier life. I have also read they are "ventilated crankcases" so I'm sure they have smoked some from day one. I will put a link to a video below, its about 30 seconds showing the amount coming out the breather and other vent. I also warmed up the engine and did a compression test. If anyone else has some numbers and engine condition I would like to compare.

#1 60 PSI  #2 75 PSI  #3 60 PSI  #4 75 PSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYTMG8T7KDQ
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on April 30, 2018, 10:10:10 PM
Hi Dave,

Prior to the rebuild when I started my car I would have a black spot on the ground from the soot that blow out of the exhaust pipe.  I didn't notice a lot of smoke coming out the back when I drove the car, just at start up when cold.  Also I didn't get many tailgaters. I think I burned/leaked a quart of oil every 100 miles.   Compression was about 50 across the four cylinders.  I am interested to see what compression I get out of the new rebuild.

What are your plans for the restoration.  Mechanicals or aesthetics or both.

Cheers,  Chet...
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 01, 2018, 12:30:04 AM

What are your plans for the restoration.  Mechanicals or aesthetics or both.

Cheers,  Chet...

Good Question, don't have a definitive answer. So far its been maintain the car as if it was my driver back in 1930. Fix what needs fixin' and run it. I want to keep it as original as possible. One benefit to this is cost and time. Its cheaper to throw a little money at it here and there, run it until the next issue pops up. Vs rebuilding, plating, painting etc. everything to new. (I'm sure you can speak to that) Problem with the nibble method is the seemingly perpetual assembly and disassembly. Fix one thing, then go at it again. Where if you tore it all the way down and addressed everything, it should be good to go. If I did that, it would be years before I would be driving the car again. I'm going to pull the oil pan, take a look around, clean it up and give her a bottle of Lucas oil treatment. Curious to see if it quiets up and smokes less. I'll also do a compression test again.

Does anyone have any insight on vacuum and how it relates to the oil pump? Here is what I mean. Got the car, vacuum canister was trashed. Vacuum line was hooked up. I removed the can and capped the vacuum line. Ran it that way the first year or 2, keep the dust out. Keep in mind I do not put many miles on, mostly shows or running on private land. I noticed the other year the relation to plugging this and oil pressure. Plugged the oil pressure goes way up, sucking air real low. Left uncapped the last (??) can't remember how long figured it was designed that way and it maybe better off. What I didn't notice before but did this weekend was if I put my thumb on it (plug) within 10 seconds the lifters cladder like they are starved for oil. Did this a few times with repeatable results. Made a video hoping it was audible but it was too windy out. I don't know how accurate my pressure gauge but moves. Wondering if plugging that is a bad thing, furthered some engine wear?  In my mind a bump oil pressure is usually not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on May 01, 2018, 02:59:23 AM
Interesting observation and question.  I kind of considered the vacuum side of the oil pump like the opposite side of a diaphragm fuel pump.  It would make sense that if one side was restricted the other side would be proportionately effected.  I think there would be two considerations, pressure and flow.  Each of these might be effected differently when you also consider the pressure release valve in the block and where the pressure is measured.  I would think that this relationship between vacuum and engine RPM to provide metered fuel flow across both high and low RPM periods would be a delicate equilibrium where even vacuum line ID would also effect the balance.  Obviously Chrysler had it figured out in that no overflow safety measures were put into place. 

It's really a very simple design that appears to work well when everything is in spec.  Traveling at the moment but something to check into.  Will be heading down this path in the near further. 
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: rwollman on May 01, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
Chet - am very interested in the pressure relief valve you refer to in your post as I have never heard of this.  Presently I am running an electric fuel pump in place of the vacuum setup as I could not control the fuel level in the canister which resulted in fuel being sucked in through the vacuum line from the oil pump - not good.  Car does not run as good as vacuum setup although I do not have the correct carb for the car.  (28Q).  I have searched numerous sites in an attempt to ID carb but had no luck.  Thought it might be off an old tractor but don"t believe so as it has an accelerator pump and tractor carbs usually do not.  I would love to go back to original vacuum setup if possible so any info I can obtain would be helpful.  As far as your thoughts on line ID affecting flow I think that one would have to really substitute a much larger vacuum line from pump to canister to cause any negative effects.  ON oil pressure with vacuum canister vs electric pump I have found that oil pressure is increased quite a bit with the deletion of the vacuum line.  I attribute this to fact that there is no oil aeration in pump caused by air.  In reference to the other gentleman's car  and his question regarding oil pressure affecting lifter noise, don"t think this is plausible as lifters are not hydraulic.  Would sooner think there is a lifter to valve clearance problem once engine reaches operating temp. .When you get your engine back I would be very interested in your results of compression test as no one really has posted what good compression reading would be in these engines.  Compression adversely affects fuel mixture settings as it takes more fuel to run low compression engines which also requires retarded timing.  Does anyone have a good way to set timing on these engines?  I know it is set thru #3 cyl on exhaust stroke with a dial indicator at .050-.048 BTDC.  gtotta be a better way..  Just my 2 cents on project.       
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on May 01, 2018, 06:53:54 PM
When I was having some timing and running issues a couple years ago (since fixed - needed a new distributor base) my compression test results at the time were as follows (motor was rebuilt in the '80's):

#1 = 57
#2 = 62
#3 = 59
#4 = 57

After the car was running, I used a vacuum gauge to adjust the timing.  Max vacuum was 19hg and backed it down to 17hg.  From there, fine tuned at the carburetor.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: chetbrz on May 03, 2018, 03:05:04 AM

Not to highjack Dave's Resto Thread I started a new topic for Oil Pressure and Vacuum Fuel pump.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 04, 2018, 12:23:14 AM
ON oil pressure with vacuum canister vs electric pump I have found that oil pressure is increased quite a bit with the deletion of the vacuum line. 

I attribute this to fact that there is no oil aeration in pump caused by air.  lifter noise, don"t think this is plausible as lifters are not hydraulic.  Would sooner think there is a lifter to valve clearance problem once engine reaches operating temp.

 Does anyone have a good way to set timing on these engines? I know it is set thru #3 cyl on exhaust stroke with a dial indicator at .050-.048 BTDC.  gtotta be a better way..  Just my 2 cents on project.     

Definite increase in oil pressure when the vacuum side is blocked. The noise might not be a lifters, but sounded valve train related to me. There is definitely an increase in engine noise, rattle / cladders (not what I perceive as a good sound) when I plugged the vacuum line on mine. Engine was at operating temperature and the noise / condition is repeatable related to the change in pressure. When I get it cleaned an lubed again I will try and see if my phone is good engine to capture the sound. (before the Lucas goes in)

I have set the timing multiple times in less than 10 minutes with no issues. My method - pull the timing screw out of the head above #4 cylinder. I grab a brazing rod drop it in the hole and crank the motor until the rod tops out TDC. Grab my air hose and blow compressed air into the cylinder and listen or feel (I open a starting cup) and see if it blows out the exhaust or into the intake. If its off 180 I crank it around to the next lap. Line the cap / rotor up making sure the timing cable has adjustment for advance and retard. ".050-.048 BTDC" I can't see how out 2 100's of an inch matters when by design you change the timing a fair amount from the cab via a cable. Unless I'm missing something.

Optimizing tuning with a vacuum gauge is something I will try to see how it works. What I have been doing is making small adjustments in multiple driving conditions until it feels good, no pops and has the most power. Adjusting the carb and timing.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on May 04, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
It was "old man" who mentioned the vacuum gauge a few years ago...worth a try and will also show if other issues.  My reading was a steady needle at max 19hg then backed off to 17hg so timing not too far advanced.

I was never able to get the screw out of the head over #4...I ended up taking the side cover off turned over the motor by hand until all the valves for each cylinder were aligned in there "correct" position...luckily it worked!
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: Crazydave on May 04, 2018, 08:06:15 PM
So the optimum target is 17hg? I am curious to see how the car runs and sounds at the different vacuum levels. Maybe I'll tube a gauge in the cab while I tune.

Is Old Man still around? Haven't seen him on here for sometime. Run across is his old posts often while searching. Hope all is well.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: frankp on May 06, 2018, 03:01:26 PM
Dave was over yesterday with his gauge and we measured 75 psi for all cylinders, 1989 rebuild of .030 over.  I'm happy; thanks Dave.

Plugs were pretty black, though.  I believe this is from the carb.  It's been a long time since they were brown.  Time to clean the carb.

Also been puttering with vacuum on intake before this .  Initial measurement is a bouncy 20 - 21 at idle  Could dial it back to about 18 with major movement in distributor.  Needle settles to stationary with increased rpm.  These measurements are done with Spark Advance knob in Full Retard.  All this is a waste of time with the carb not operating properly.
Title: Re: Dave's 1929 U Resto project
Post by: racertb on May 07, 2018, 04:27:44 PM
Looking for maximum vacuum.  19hg was the maximum vacuum I could get with the distributor advanced the most it could go; backing down a degree or two (17hg for me) to prevent too much/over advance of the timing...settled in nicely and fine tuned at the carb.