28Q29U Plymouth Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: frankp on July 04, 2014, 03:30:39 PM

Title: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 04, 2014, 03:30:39 PM
Happy Independence Day!

Interesting to read what others have been doing this summer and winter

Been working on the Ply a bit this summer and not much driving.  Currently on jack stands.

The front seat upholstery was completely worn through on the drivers side.  In taking it out, I've found that wood needs to be replaced/repaired.  Could not loosen one machine screw in the seat support to the B pillar and had to drill it out.  First time in my life the bit was exactly centered so buying a tap was not necessary.  The entire assembly is back in, but more wood work remains.

Purchased a new front mat and cut to size.  Will put in when seat is done.

The pot metal inlet on the carb broke and had to make a new line.  Chose brass this time with a copper back-up, just in case.  Also bought new springs for the carb and the hand throttle.  Plan on painting them black.  Shiny new metal looks out of place.

Purchased 5 new Firestones and tubes.  Replaces the 49 year-old Sears Allstate tires.  Two are mounted on the rims, but need some outside paint before install.  Remaining 3 are waiting on the interior paint to dry.  Interesting how much rusty the rims were.  Left rear was completely rusted while right front and spare barely had any.  They were all sandblasted at the same time and he primered for me.  Wonder if LR wasn't blasted?  Thankful to have stumbled across directions for using the rim tool a while back.

Transmission and differential oil needed changing and decided to follow the Model A boys and use 600W oil.  Had been using 85w-140.

With all the room to get underneath, there are plenty of places that could use cosmetic attention.  I remember how nice it looked after cleaning and with a fresh coat of paint.  Many miles ago.  Will see how long my enthusiasm lasts for this activity.

Safe trips everyone!
frank
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 04, 2014, 04:19:22 PM
Hi Frank...let's see some photos of everything when done!

I'll have to look into the 600w oil for trans and rear, haven't heard of that before.  Let us know/if it makes any difference.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 05, 2014, 08:13:55 AM
I will post those pics.

The label on the gear oil says it is equivalent to S.A.E. 250w.  A quart was $6 + tax at Little Dearborn, Ford only parts store in Minneapolis.  I want to see if I can tell a difference.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 05, 2014, 11:44:51 AM
I have been using Valvoline 85-140, which after reading a few articles online, that may be too thin, at least for the Model A folks.  Whenever I've felt I needed to top mine off, I've been using Lucas oil stabilizer, which apparently can be used in rear ends and transmissions.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: Old Man on July 06, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
Don't use 600w. It's far too thick for our trannies and rear ends. The 85W-140 is perfect as the original manuals from Chrysler Plymouth recommended SAE 90 (which is what I have always used). I don't know why the Ford owners would use 600W as it's pretty well 'grease'. Our cars were meant to have a fluid in their driveline parts. I do use an additive called MolySlip G ,the G standing for 'gearbox'. Lucas and others make their additives and I see lots of guys using Lucas and the choice is of course yours but I would use something for easier shifting if nothing else. These Chrysler trannies and rear ends are not like GM and Ford. I know Chev owners who carry a spare axle under the rear seat because Chevs snapped axles before lunch. Our gears are made of chrome nickel inside a cast iron housing. I have taken apart several trannies over the years to replace ball bearing races for the input and output shafts. (It's a wear point in all the CPDD boxes I've seen. The shafts started to wobble after a few years and the seals and bearings needed replacing. After that they appear to never go again. At least not in our lifetime. Maybe better replacement parts now?) But every box I opened appeared to have assembled "the day before". Absolutely no wear on teeth or slop in shaft collars. To put it another way: Have you ever tried to drill a hole through one of your wrenches or ever wondered why they outlast the thousands of nuts and bolts they are used on;it's because of their hardness and forging. They are 'stamped' out of chrome nickel the same as the gears in our CPDD trannies. It's like having a 'box of wrenches' for a tranny or diff. I understand you can snap off a tooth,I don't know how we would at this stage of the game, but you won't wear them out. But 600W would be thrown out to the sides by the 'tubine effect' of the gears,both in the tranny and rear end, and only a very little would be on the gears at any moment. I would stay with the 85W-140 or use the SAE 90 high pressure gear box lube I use and an additive of your choice. This has worked for me for over 35 years.
  ps-I understand GM has really lost their mind now. They are getting away for solid metal gears for their trannies and rear ends and are making the gears out of powder. They take a metal powder and crush it under high pressure to form their gears. It's called 'sintering' and I understand my Pontiac Montana has them and it's scares the hell out of me. I'm told if you are pulling a trailer and jerking the trailer during takeoffs, you can disinegrate one of these sintered gears. Progress?           
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 06, 2014, 01:27:08 PM
1st a price correction, $12 per quart.

Old Man, thanks for your comments.  I have never seen specific weights for diff or trans fluid or grease, except engine oil in Plymouth literature, but I would like to.  My Instruction Book is only specific as identifying such as "Fluid Gear Lubricant," Medium Cup Grease."  These terms are from The Lubrication Chart in the middle of the Instruction Book, Fifth Edition May 1929.  At the time, they were probably very well understood.  Interestingly, the Chart specifies SAE numbers for engine oil.

The Chart does say to dilute Rear Axel and Transmission with Kerosene for winter.  The 600w may be too viscous, even in summer.

I do not understand the "turbine effect."  Say rotating individual buckets of 30w, 90w, 600w at the same rpm, I would expect the lower numbers to be thrown to the side to a greater, measurable degree than the higher.  The idea behind using high viscosity 600w was that it would "cling" to the gears.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 06, 2014, 01:30:18 PM
Thanks for the info Old Man...sounds like I should keep using what I've been using.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: Old Man on July 07, 2014, 10:29:05 AM
The 'turbine effect' is the effect of the rotating gears throwing the lubricant out to the walls of the box. I have taken apart several trannies and diffs over to the years and spent a lot of time scraping the old grease off the inside walls. They used to use that kind of stuff back then but thinking has changed and looking at the scan I've included ,Chrysler,which had MUCH better engineering than any others,tried to keep the lubricants as fluid as they could. Even to adding kerosene to dilute it. I have spent many years converting the old lubricants to modern equivalents and I highly recommend you use your original manuals as display material with your vehicle and leave it at that. Right now I'm using SAE 20W-40 API/SN oil in my old stuff. They do not see Winter use so the viscosity will remain at 40 for my use in the Summer. They are the most the modern engine oils you can buy in the world and yes they are detergent. I use anything that's on sale be it Texaco or Shell etc. But I have never had a problem with the detergent removing 80 years of crud and mixing it with the crankcase and blocking oil passages. Most likely because I have had the pans off everything years ago and scraped out anything that had built up on the crankcase walls. And I change the oil every year even though I might put only 200 or 300 miles on the vehicle.  And my 6s have original outboard oil filters on them that I have found the modern equivalent cartridge for so they are changed each year. I add a 'friction modifier' that I like called Prolong made in Alberta even though all Canadian retail oils now state they have a friction modifier added already,even house brands. I HIGHLY recommend you use some make of friction modifier in addition to your oil or trannie/diff lubes. I have determined my engines and trannies/diffs are not wearing. This as I've said is in part because of the quality of the CPDD materials but I have modernized the lubricants and what's in there now is being used in 300+ horsepower engines and 4 wheel drive JEEPs. So I think my engines and drive lines think they have died and gone to heaven. ( I have noticed over the years that we Canadians have different products and nomenclatures up here. We also have better quality gasoline. I suspect because of our adverse temperatures. Our gas is changed every Spring and Fall by the retailers. Our Winter gas has benzene added to it to lighten it up for quicker starts in 0 degree weather. It's then removed to prevent pre-ignition in the Summer. There are other additives in it as well I understand. We don't have the stale gas problem every year the Americans seem to. I never change or drain any gasoline and never have. My old cars and farm equipment start in the Spring just like they were just turned off yesterday. So my point is, some of my comments may be Canadian in nature and not applicable elsewhere. Sorry.)

  ps- When I was in the R.C.A.F. I was responsible for Pratt and Whitney 9 cylinder radial engines of 1340 cubic inches. In the Canadian far north the SHELL SAE 100 aviation oil would solidify in the Winter. You haven't lived until the 1st time you've seen the dry sump pet cock opened on the engine bottom to drain out the last few dregs of hot oil on to the snow, to have it turn to a solid you can pick up in your hand!! So the 9 gallons of oil in the master tank would congeal overnight and there would be no lubrication to be sprayed on the engine parts on the next start. So we had another electrical pump that sprayed raw 80-87 gasoline from the main tanks into the oil sump. Depending on temperature we would hold the spring loaded switch ,on the instrument panel up, for so many minutes while the air cooled engine still ran at 100 C operating temperature. Then we would shut it down. Next morning I would go out and start it up and run it up to 100 C. (Bloody cold work!) Then start timing it to a graph to make sure the gasoline was burnt off. The aircraft was considered to have a 'major snag' and could not be flown until I performed the burn off. It was called 'oil dilution' and is still in use and very necessary in Canada. Very Canadian eh!               
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 07, 2014, 10:31:38 PM
Thanks for the explanation and the chart showing the various weights with temperature conditions.  Very helpful.

I don't know how the refiners modify gasoline for summer and winter here, but I know they do.  In Minnesota in can be 100F/37.8C to -28F/-33C in the Twin Cities.  Without changes, we to would experience real problems in winter.

Finally have all the tires mounted on the rims.  I have always put in the air then let it all out and fill again.  Supposedly lessens likely hood of tube being pinched.  Is there a better method of inflation after installation?

Will be prepping and painting the rims and it will almost be time for a drive.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 08, 2014, 11:20:17 AM
Can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: PatrickSmith on July 14, 2014, 12:54:44 PM
Summer of fun! 1931 Plymouth PA main bearing, clutch, rear trans seal, parking brake, rear axle seals, and brake drum overhaul.
Once the Arizona temps started creeping above 95 daily I decided to take on some needed major mechanical work on my car.
 
I started by doing a complete teardown from the rear of the block to the rear axle. I replaced the rear main seal with a modern neoprene seal; install a new clutch plate, media blasted the bell housing, drive shaft, Trans, and every part I could fit in the box. New gaskets and seals to every part as I went along. Itís been a major project but once sheís on the road I believe it will all be worth the efforts.

One bit of saving grace is a family friend with a machine shop. He has allowed me to spend many hours using his shop on weekends and learning machine work along the way. Iím not wealthy so his guidance has helped me keep the cost to cents on the dollar.

Months ago I posted to a few forums that I was searching for brake drums (11í X 1.5Ē) for my car. I received no replies but continued day after day with EBay, Hemmingís, Craigslist (Nationally) and every website I could find.

Over the years all four of my drums had been turned to the point that they were three times over the limit for wall thickness. Not to mention the fact that when she was pulled from the family farm she was buried to the axle in the dirt and mud. At some point in the past the wheel studs were replaced and welded inside the drum.

Finally after some research I found the Model A Ford front drums were a near perfect match for size and width.
I removed the center hubs from my Plymouth drums and Machined the center of the Model A drums to accept the Plymouth hubs and fit the two together. New wheel studs were purchased (back to original size) as well. Shoes have been resurfaced with the softest material I could find; media blasted and repainted the backing plates.

Itís been a long summer with many long days invested on the weekends but soon she will be ready to hit the road once the temps get down to a bearable degree.  I have documented all my work with pictures in particular the brake drum process and will post in the future. I canít imagine Iím the only one who has had such a hard time replacing the drums.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: chetbrz on July 14, 2014, 08:12:24 PM
Nice work Pat,  will look forward to seeing the pictures of the drums.  I think this is a common issue for our old cars and it sounds like you have come up with an alternative fix.

Tks for the post,  Chet..
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 16, 2014, 09:18:38 AM
Good for you Patrick!  Your investment will definitely be a plus, down the road.  As Chet said, the inter change info is invaluable.

My progress has been frustratingly slow.  Now at the point of trying to get the top coat on the rims, but will be gone for about a week, so will see how much progress is made today.

Talk about real fun - being there for Dave's start-up!  Reminded me of the time I was able to get mine started, many decades ago - what a thrill.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 27, 2014, 11:14:05 PM
Finally have all tires mounted and the rear back on the ground.  Painted the transmission shift assembly and hand brake.  Re-worked battery box cover.  Want to clean front end a bit more before taking off the stands and going for a drive.  (Dave is making tremendous progress with his car)
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: 29plycoop on July 27, 2014, 11:51:19 PM
all most done. Keep up the good work and post pics. They give everyone ideas.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: chetbrz on July 28, 2014, 06:47:40 AM

Nice work Frank,  Enjoy the rest of the summer behind the wheel.

Chet...
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 28, 2014, 10:53:06 AM
Thanks, Chet.

On my to do list is to coat the inside of the vac tank.  I've seen a kit at an independent auto store for motorcycle tanks that should be ample.  It has a small leak that is mostly annoying than anything.  Then it will get a coat of black paint.  Using Dave's car as a guide, the wiring to the brake lamp switch will be re-done.  Oh how I enjoy soldering.  Still need to install the hand throttle clip and spring.  This weekend a neighbor observed I spend more working on it than driving, sad, but true in the recent past.  Good thing doing some of these things is a bit satisfying.

I'm having the brake can decal replicated.  Expect to have within next 2 weeks.  I'm hoping for the best.  The extras will be for sale, if they look good.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 28, 2014, 04:14:56 PM
The pin stripes on the wheel looks nice...did you do this with a steady hand?
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 28, 2014, 07:03:18 PM
Yes, a steady hand and a sharp knife!  It is 3M tape, Tomato Red.  Closest thing to a Vermillion (orange red) that was on the shelf.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 28, 2014, 07:33:18 PM
Frank, did you check Jim Osborn Reproductions about the brake canister/reservoir decal?  I put one on mine and it looks pretty good.  The price wasn't too bad and ordered a couple extras just to have them.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 28, 2014, 08:43:58 PM
I looked at their web catalog last week and they did not have it.  I missed the boat.  If I may ask, is it like a model decal or vinyl sticker and what did they charge?
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 28, 2014, 09:02:09 PM
Frank, I'll look in the garage later and get the information.  Their site gave me a part number at the time but not much else and I ended up calling and ordering over the phone.  They came in 2-3 days. 

Ted
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: SteveG on July 28, 2014, 09:45:47 PM
Finally have all tires mounted and the rear back on the ground.  Painted the transmission shift assembly and hand brake.  Re-worked battery box cover.  Want to clean front end a bit more before taking off the stands and going for a drive.  (Dave is making tremendous progress with his car)

Frank,

Your wood spokes look terrific. What did you use to refinish them?

SteveG

Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 28, 2014, 10:46:33 PM
Thanks for looking, Ted.

Thanks, SteveG.  I brushed at least 4 coats of spar varnish.  Sanded in between as per the directions.  I believe the mfg was Minwax.  I used the spar as it is made for outside use with UV inhibitors, as they say.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: chetbrz on July 29, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
I'm having the brake can decal replicated.  Expect to have within next 2 weeks.  I'm hoping for the best.  The extras will be for sale, if they look good.

Hay Frank, keep me in the loop for one of the extra decals.  Chet...
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 29, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
Happy to Chet.  I'll post pic and any pertinent details.

Went for a few mile drive yesterday.  Fun to be back on the road until the 4-way stop.  Pushed in the clutch and it quit!  Dire thoughts entered feeble mind.  Hit the starter and started right away.  Drove the 2 miles home with no issues.  Whoeth knoweth??

Noticed the speedometer is sticking at 0 when starting.  Get to about 10 mph and it spins up.  Of course it wasn't acting this way in the spring.
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 29, 2014, 10:34:32 PM
Frank and anyone else interested in the decals:

Jim Osborn Reproductions  770.962.7556

Part #DD0624   1925-28 Chrysler Lockheed Brake Decal

$6 each plus shipping.  I can take a photo if interested..

Ted
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: ski on July 30, 2014, 12:29:48 AM
I'd like to see a photo Ted.

ski
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on July 30, 2014, 09:51:11 AM
Thanks for the info, Ted.  Is it a water based decal or a vinyl type?

I too would like to see a photo, but I don't know if would run afoul of copyright law unless if in on your reservoir.

As far as my reproduction efforts, they will continue.  I'm committed like the chicken at the chicken dinner.

frank
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: racertb on July 31, 2014, 10:26:28 PM
These are not water based, but just a peel a stick:

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/IMAG1421_zpscjx9w3ty.jpg) (http://s947.photobucket.com/user/racertb/media/Car%20Stuff/IMAG1421_zpscjx9w3ty.jpg.html)

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad320/racertb/Car%20Stuff/IMAG1426_zpslkamqu9n.jpg) (http://s947.photobucket.com/user/racertb/media/Car%20Stuff/IMAG1426_zpslkamqu9n.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on August 01, 2014, 09:32:40 AM
Thanks, Ted.  I appreciate your posting these.

A local community sponsors a summer get together with all sorts of family events.  The highlight for vintage car enthusiasts is the New London to New Brighton car run.  Only automobiles made from 1916 or older can participate. 

They expect about 75 participants and motor bikes are there, too.  Regardless the number, it is fun to watch them cross the finish line.  Many are parked afterwards for a closer look.

( lost some text 1st time)
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: 29plycoop on August 06, 2014, 10:18:46 PM
Is there a paint or coating that can be put on the brake fluid can that will not come off from brake fluid getting on it?  Seems like after a while the seams leach fluid, or when filling fluid gets on it and the paint peels off. Any ideas out there? - Rich
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: chetbrz on August 07, 2014, 07:20:33 AM
Is there a paint or coating that can be put on the brake fluid can that will not come off from brake fluid getting on it?  Seems like after a while the seams leach fluid, or when filling fluid gets on it and the paint peels off. Any ideas out there? - Rich

Rich,

I used the stuff below both on my 48 Plymouth gas tank and the 29's brake fluid can.  So far around 8 years and no problems.

(http://www.1948plymouth.info/1948p15/images/GasTank01.jpg)

Here is the link to the repair in 2005

http://www.1948plymouth.info/1948p15/reports/20045/09182005.htm (http://www.1948plymouth.info/1948p15/reports/20045/09182005.htm)

I am sure you can Google it for specifications.  Once dry I believe it is impervious to chemicals.

Chet...
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: 29plycoop on August 07, 2014, 10:27:47 AM
Thank you for the reply for treating the inside of a brake fluid can. Is there a paint or coating for the outside that will stay?  - Rich
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on August 13, 2014, 10:41:18 AM
Rich, I don't know of any paint that regular fluid won't eat.  I have the same problem.  I do try to keep the level in the reservoir no more than 2/3 full.  Seems to help.

Here are pictures from the Official Roster of the vintage cars from last Saturday.  It was sprinkling and I didn't take my camera, but you can get the idea.  If you think we have problems with oil leaks, you should see what these owners have to endure.

Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on August 13, 2014, 10:43:28 AM
Here are the rest.

Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on August 19, 2014, 11:21:32 AM
Finally got the brake reservoir decal and applied.  I think it looks pretty good.

Drove about 40 miles to a Threshing show on Saturday that Dave readied his car to attend. I'll post a few pics on separate thread.  Trip there was uneventful.  On the way home was a different story.  Fuel and carb problems.  Never had the idle adjustment screw vibrate loose to lean the mixture.  I may need a new spring to keep it in the correct place.  Learn more all the time.

Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: Bearings 46 on August 19, 2014, 01:55:15 PM
The Red Flag Horseless Carriage Tour  in SE Iowa is similar to the MN event - cars that you will not see at any other event will be doing 3 days of touring. September 24 - 27, 2014 - New London to Brighton, IA  www.redflagmotortour.com
Title: Re: Misc stuff this summer
Post by: frankp on August 19, 2014, 08:05:18 PM
I hope they have many participants.  That would be fun to see, also.  Thanks for the link.  frank