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Messages - 29UJohn

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General Discussion / Re: oil pressure
« on: May 08, 2010, 05:23:08 AM »
You could try tightening the snot out of it.  Most likely it is either not lining up straight, or the flare is damaged, or (hopefully not) the brass T-fitting male end is damaged.

I recommend making a new copper intake line.  As Gary said, it is a real pain, and will take some time, but that would be the best thing to do.  I remade mine after the engine was rebuilt.  I used one of those coiled spring benders.  As for the attachment to the center bearing, best to replace that fitting with a modern type compression fitting, if not already done so.  

General Discussion / Re: oil pressure
« on: April 24, 2010, 04:40:36 AM »
Please let us know what Egge says about your oil pump.

Regarding the dipstick and oil quantity, when I bought my 29 in 73, it had a dip stick from a latter model Plymouth that indicated 6 quarts.  I remarked it for four.

General Discussion / Re: oil pressure
« on: April 20, 2010, 03:34:13 AM »

You are keeping us in suspense.  Did you get the engine running and good oil pressure?



General Discussion / Re: 28-29 Plymouth Cowl Lacing Question
« on: April 07, 2010, 03:42:05 AM »
Wow - thanks for the pictures!  I can get the same lacing from Synder's for $1.00 a foot. 


General Discussion / Re: 28-29 Plymouth Cowl Lacing Question
« on: April 06, 2010, 04:29:27 AM »

General Discussion / Re: oil pressure
« on: April 06, 2010, 04:28:59 AM »
Did you stop when the oil drew up about 6 inches in the tube, or was that all it would do?  It is a smaller hole, but it should have drawn it all the way into the pump.

As for the fuel vac-tank, there is no need for a gasket at the top.  The vacume is formed only in the top portion - the smaller top tank the sits in the top.  This cannister must have no leaks and be airtight, both fittings on top must be sealed tight.   Also, since you took it apart, the inside is dry.  normally there is always some fuel in the top tank - but there is no way to fill  it of check it.  IF the tank is airtight, but dry, it will take a little while longer for it to draw up fuel from the gas tank.  This is the same vacume that draws the oil up from the pan.  So, it will also take longer to draw oil from the pan. 

Adding fuel to the little tank just allows you to start the engine.  It does not affect the vacume.

You seem to have ruled all other problems out.  But, not sure I understand exactly the test you did.  If it only draws about six inches and stops, perhaps the pump is not very efficient for some reason (too thick of a a gasket on the cover? It should only be the thickness of about two pieces of paper.)  But didn't yoo say you bench tested it and it was pumping oil?)  If the pump is good, I would try and seal shut the small vac port on the pump and try again.

General Discussion / Re: oil pressure
« on: April 04, 2010, 09:31:37 PM »

It sounds like you may have a leak where the vac line connects to the oil pump.  If it is sucking any air there, it will not suck oil from the pan

The oil- pump is really an oil-vac pump.  If there is no fuel in the upper chamber of the vac-fuel tank, it could take a long time to seal and draw fuel, if at all.

Try capping the vac line to the fuel pump to see if that is the problem.  The best way is to make a sealed end with another 1/8 compression fitting and short piece of 1/8 copper tubing and solder it shut.  But, since you may not have that, you could remove the fitting and just hold something against the opening with your finger.

Do not use teflon tape - that is a compression fitting, so the tape will not help - it may actually make things worse.

As for the pickup line, you did the right thing replacing it with a compression fitting.  The original is what is known as a GM style fitting - it works great once at the factory, but is not designed to be re-used.  Sometimes they can be reused, but there is no garantee.  Best to repace with compression.

As for getting a prime going, it once took me 60 seconds twice to get a prime going.  That was a bit un-nerving.  I suspect that time it was a problem with my fuel vac pump tank.


General Discussion / 28-29 Plymouth Cowl Lacing Question
« on: April 04, 2010, 04:37:34 AM »
Can anyone tell me what the original cowl lacing looked like?  Was it the flat type ot double beaded type?  And, how wide and thick should it be?

On my radiator shell, I have 3/4 inch wide double beaded lacing, with beads 3/16 inch thick.  However, this seems too thick and narrow for the cowling.


General Discussion / Re: oil pressure
« on: April 01, 2010, 05:22:41 AM »
You must prime the oil pump first. 

I would do the following:

1) pack the oil pump with vasaline.  That is how the old timers primed the pumps.  (While the cover is off, check the inside to see if the two vanes are in there with their springs pushing them out against the sides.)  The hot oil will wash the vasaline out.  Do not use grease.  (Another method is to remove the pump, submerge it in a bucket of oil, and turn the gear by hand until all the air bubbles come out and only oil is moving through the pump, then reinstall it.)

2) Be sure the small air line from the oil pump to the fuel pump is tight on both connections.  If not, the oil pump will not pump oil.

3) Remove the spark plugs.  Shut off the gas so no indavertent sparks start a fire.

4) Now with the clutch in, run the starter.  The engine should turn over very fast.  Try it for no more than 60 seconds at a time, to allow the starter to rest and cool.  Sometimes it takes more than one time to get the pressure to come up.  When it does, you should see about 20 lbs of pressure.

You will not harm the engine, since there will be no compression load in the cylinders.  The bearings should have enough oil on them to handle turning without a compression load.

If you have any doubts about your gage, test it on something else first.  Better yet, use a substitute new gage, even if only temporary.

IA few other tips. I go two steps further now.  I disconnect the oil intake tube from the oil pump and sweeze some Lucus oil into the draw tube to prime that, then reconnect.  I also remove the pump and force lucas oil into it while turning the gear by hand (vice packing with vasaline - which does work well.)

If you still have no luck, remove the pump and place a draw tube from the intake to a can of oil and turn it by hand to see if it is working.  You should be able to tell quickly.

After you have oil pressure, reinstall the spark plugs and turn on the gas and start her up. 

If the oil pressure goes above 40 lbs under any cicumstances, shut her down immediately.  (Be sure you have a good gage.  Suggest using a temporary mdern gage.) Then remove, clean and check the oil pressure releif valve.  Reinstall and start again.  If the pressure is still above 40 lbs, turn the screw counterclockwise to relieve some pressure and lower the oil pressure to about 30-35 lbs.  Then let the engine run a while and get good and warmed up.  Then rev the engine.  If the oil pressre goes above 40, turn the relief valve some more. What you are looking for is a max of 40 lbs hot at full rev RPM (~2000 RPM), and about 15-20 lbs (sometimes less if very hot) at idle (800 RPM).

General Discussion / Re: gas gauge
« on: March 29, 2010, 02:22:14 AM »
There were apparently two types of gas tank gagaes.  One like yours (and mine) has a long neck and a small cap.  I never had a glass on mine.  Not sure if that was the way it was originally, but it was kinda convienent, cause I could always check if it was stuck or not. 

The other sat closer to the tank and had a larger cap.  That one had a glass cover.

General Discussion / Re: rear pinion seal
« on: March 27, 2010, 06:47:14 PM »

I got mine from Then and Now - need to ask to speak directly with Tom Hannaford.  The seal parts mauals show two sizes for the pinion shaft that the seal rides on.  However, mine was different from either of them.  Best to measure to be sure.  If Tom no longer carries them, then call Larry Chegwidden (after 8 PM Pacific time) at (503) 253-8941.  He makes the axel seals and may also carry the pinion seal, but I am not sure.

General Discussion / Re: Kingston vacuum tanks
« on: March 27, 2010, 06:34:41 PM »

The fittings on top are brass.  One the one from the gas tank is basically a similar female flare fitting as on the gas tank.  The other brass fitting is for a 1/8 copper compression fitting, basically the same as for the other end of the line that connetcs to the oil vac pump on the engine.  See attached picture.  There is one fellow I knew of that repairs these, he may have some to sell?  I will try and find his name if you want.  John 29U

These pumps are very simple, and if kept clean and tight, work fairly well.

Below is a copy the post I was referring to, from Dec 2007:


Here is a picture of mine [Kingston Vac-Fuel pump for 29 Plymouth].  

KINGSTON PRODUCTS CORP  Kokomo Indiana  -  Model 39
Date#   5 / 30
JAN 18, 1921    -    AUG 1, 1922
APR  7, 1922    -    JAN 22, 1924


General Discussion / Re: Engine Rebuild info on my 29 Ply "U"
« on: March 21, 2010, 01:50:11 AM »
Who rebuilt your engine?

General Discussion / Re: Kingston vacuum tanks
« on: March 12, 2010, 05:14:06 AM »
Type in "Kingston" in the search window and then go down an open the subject "Kingston Vacume Fuel Pump is Overflowing - Any Advice? "  You wil find a picture of the tank and information on how it works.

General Discussion / Re: rear main seal replacement
« on: February 05, 2010, 05:12:35 AM »
Can you provide the felt warehouse name, address, web-site?

I have one engine that had a cork gasket.  Then and Now Automotive has replacement cork, but I chose to try a rope seal.

I have another engine that has been modifed to use the Dodge/Plymouth slit steel/Nitrile seal.

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