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Messages - chetbrz

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871
This is a continuation of my Post “Any Thoughts”

Cleaning and adjusting the pressure relief valve on the 1929-U was both good & bad.  It was good to clean it but very bad to adjust it and here is why.  (Use the crude diagram below for reference)

The line, which feeds the oil gauge, is between the pump output and the pressure relief valve.  Because of this the pressure relief valve only affects the pressure of the oil going to the motor parts. The gauge reading is only affected by the valve adjustment when the valve is opened to much thus causing a dangerous drop in oil pressure to the motor parts.  My assumption is that this is the reason the Plymouth Instruction Book states “…never to adjust this device…”.  The adjustment will have little affect on the gauge reading unless you completely deplete the amount of oil going to the engine bearings. 

The single eccentric in the oil pump is used to move both oil in the engine and air flow from the vacuum fuel pump.  Because of this, the total pressure out is equal to the sum of both inputs and the viscosity of the fluid.  Since the pump mixes air with the oil…, if the vacuum line is plugged up then no air is introduced to the pump and thus the pump will develop an additional 10 to 15 psi of oil pressure. (reason – air will compress at a much higher rate then oil)    Example:  Take the air out of your brake lines and they work much better.

This is exactly what the problem was with my car.   When I brought the car home it had no vacuum fuel pump and I still have not hooked it up yet.  The point being is that someone plugged the line.   Of course the last owner didn’t have the problem because he had a leaky oil pump cover gasket that introduced the needed airflow.  My problem presented itself after I replaced the leaky oil cover gasket. 

After cleaning and adjusting my pressure relief valve to minimum pressure my gauge was affected by maintaining 35 psi at idle and 50 psi at run.  Good.., absolutely not.  That meant that my engine was not getting the correct pressure at low rpm and probably at high also.   My engine starts to knock when I get into the 40 to 45 mph range and while driving it to the car show on Sunday it was starting to knock between 35 to 40.  I finally discover the above problem after the show.  I drove a total of 35 miles to and fro and most likely took some life out of my bearings.   

I intend to get everything adjusted back to spec before I run the car again.  Hopefully I didn’t do too much damage.  I am glad that the engine pressure stayed pretty close to the same otherwise I probably would have driven the car until I sized it up thinking that I fixed the problem.

The Plymouth manual is correct: 

NEVER ADJUST THE PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE IN YOUR OLD PLYMOUTH..

Chet...

872
General Discussion / Re: Hot Days here in Virginia
« on: June 12, 2008, 06:20:35 AM »
Gary,

I bought it from Steel Rubber.

Seal set, windshield, rubber only, for crank-up windshields. 3 piece set for bottom and sides. Lower strip fits dovetail groove in cowl. Usually for Fisher bodied WPC cars.

70-0016-52.....$ 89.20/set



If you want I can take a picture.  The pieces fit like a glove.  I just had to trim the lengths.  A little pricey but good quality.

Chet…

873
General Discussion / Re: Hot Days here in Virginia
« on: June 10, 2008, 09:49:24 PM »
Jim,

They don't send anything back to you.  When you drive into the park they will ask you if you are pre-registered.  They will have everything waiting for you when you arrive.   I have the 29 in the back porch again while I work on her.  The heat is unbearable in that I get sun in the back from about 1:00 PM on.   I am about a day behind but should catch up a bit with cooler weather.

Since Friday I have completed so far:

- Installed original radiator
- Installed the head, plugs, distributor cap.
- Installed the gas tank
- Installed a new front windshield gasket with tracks.  It now opens & closes real nice.
- Installed new glass on the passenger side door.  Remade the rotted wood pieces and installed new window tracks.

Left to go:   (4 days and counting)

- Button up the cooling system
- Installed the hydraulic rear axel ‘T’ & original reservoir
- Installed the vacuum fuel pump. (with power assist)
- Install the floor covering & pedal trims
- Bring the car to the muffler shop and have a rear tail pipe fabricated.

I think that should do it for now…

Chet…

874
General Discussion / Hot Days here in Virginia
« on: June 10, 2008, 07:22:09 AM »
The weather here in Virginia has been abusive in the past couple of days.  I took this week off from work to do a number of needed repairs to my 29-U. 

I installed the refurbished gas tank yesterday.  I think the fabricated Ford gas gauge looks pretty good.  Much better then the painted tin can cap that the last owner used.   It’s hard to tell from the picture but the gauge is reading ¼ tank.



Well..., back to work,  Chet…

875
General Discussion / Re: Any Thoughts.?
« on: June 06, 2008, 07:13:04 PM »
Today I installed the new motor mount and the head.  I ran a compression test after the install.., cranking the motor with the starter I was able to pump up 65 – 70 psi across all cylinders.  I think I will be back on the road soon.



Chet…

Yes that is a 6vdc high output alternator.

876
General Discussion / Re: Under seat storage??
« on: June 04, 2008, 12:06:51 PM »
Chris,

It sounds like you found a Split Rim Tool.





Your car is looking Great !!  Keep up the good work,

Chet…


877
General Discussion / Re: Any Thoughts.?
« on: May 28, 2008, 01:16:59 PM »
John,

I think you hit the preverbal nail right on the head.  The top of my pistons is stamped X183.??? Whatever that means.   The diameter of the stock cylinder wall for the 175.5 engine is 3 x 5/8” or 3.625.  I measured the inside diameter of the bore at 3.645 with no taper top to bottom all cylinders.   It appears the engine was bored out 0.020.  This is actually good news, if need be I could go another 10 or 20 thousands down the road apiece.

I don’t have the time to pull a piston now and investigate further.  I will put it all back together and see if the oil consumption problem subsides with the pressure relief valve working properly.  If not.., I will suspect some type of mismatch between the bore, pistons, and rings.

Tks,  Chet…

PS…  Don, I have the stud for the head.  The nut & stud decided to come out as a unit. 
PS…  John, How many foot/lbs did you use to torque the head.?

878
General Discussion / Re: Any Thoughts.?
« on: May 27, 2008, 10:49:38 AM »
John,

The engine is definitely burning oil.  There are no leaks and no back pressure which leads me to believe that the compression is still good.  I think I ran a compression test when I first brought the car home and it checked out OK but I will definitely do it again after I reinstall the head.

The motor was freshly rebuilt and the pistons and valves are all new.  The cylinders show no appreciable wear and they look like they just came back from the shop.   If what you say is correct about the oil system then I wonder if the rings and pistons were correctly spec. out or installed properly.   Just because things look good that doesn’t necessarily mean that the machine shop or the home rebuilder did everything correctly.   

Judging by everything I just said I would not have expected the pressure relief valve to be in such a sorry condition.  The engine might have been hot-tanked with the valve in place so that it might not have been properly cleaned which leads me to believe that the rebuilder was not familiar with this vintage engine or the car was unused for a long time after the engine rebuild.???   

I am trying to get ready for a local Father’s Day show here in Virginia.  I will put everything back together and hope for the best.  If no improvement then I will most likely pull the engine out and start all over again.   I have a bad feeling that the pistons might be slightly undersized with oversized rings improperly installed.   Before I reinstall the head I will mic. the cylinders and piston gap.    The cylinders are stamped on the top with a part number beginning with X and the valves are marked with manufacture & part number, none of which are Chrysler.

John thanks for your input it all helps with the trouble shooting process,  Chet…


879
General Discussion / Any Thoughts.?
« on: May 26, 2008, 12:43:30 PM »
I have been having a lot of trouble with burning an excessive amount of oil.  When at idle the oil pressure reads just under 40 psi and when driving my gauge is maxed out.  The motor runs strong and was rebuilt not too many miles ago by the car’s former owners.  Anyway since I was draining the coolant to replace the radiator with an original one I decided to remove the head.  My two purposes are one to inspect the pistons & cylinder walls, and the other reason is to repaint the head silver. 

With the head removed I found pristine cylinder walls with hardly noticeable edge ring.  The cylinders had oil puddled in the cylinders with a lot of black carbon on the pistons.  I cleaned up the area and decided to trouble shoot the oil pressure.



Thinking that my car’s gauge was inaccurate I installed a new modern oil gauge and cranked the engine with the starter.  The gauge read 38 psi after about a half a minute of cranking.  This is the same value as my interior gauge so I guess my old gauge is correct. 

I then decided to remove the pressure relief valve assembly.   After inspection I could not push the valve in far enough to allow the port to open.  I disassembled the valve and cleaned the spring, plunger, and cylinder.   After reassembling the parts I could now push the plunger in to allow the valve to open.   I think this was my problem.  I reassembled the valve into the engine and set the pressure one turn from minimum pressure.  I cranked the engine with the starter and the pressure pumped up to 20 psi and with continued cranking would go up to 35 psi.   The pressure looks much better now then when I started. 

Once I get the motor back together I will adjust for 35 - 40 psi maximum when driving at a normal speed.  I think this should help the excess oil burning problem by allowing less oil to blow by the cylinder rings. 

What do you guys think.?  Is there anything else I should do while the head is off.?

Chet…

880
General Discussion / Re: Gary... Read this post !!!
« on: May 20, 2008, 01:30:03 PM »
Just for info. I had my brakes relined by these guys and they did a great job at a resonable price.
The starter on my 29 shorted and I've sent them and email to see what it will cost to have it rebuilt.

Good luck with all your projects
George

George,

I see that you finally got your wheels off and had the brakes fixed.  Too bad about the starter motor.  Hopefully you will get it back and repaired and be back on the road soon.

Chet...

881
General Discussion / Re: Under seat storage??
« on: May 20, 2008, 01:23:07 PM »
Gary,

You are probably correct in your first assumption.  It might be that this was a storage place for the jack, crank, and a common tool set.   I have noticed this compartment while under my car.  I can’t access the compartment because someone replaced the floor and boarded over this area.  Hay wouldn’t it be great to open that floor up and find a bunch of money left over from a late thirties Bank Robbery.    Oh well I can dream… can’t I.  Most likely nothing there but a pile of rust.

I definitely have to get to a National Plymouth meet and see what one of these cars looks like based on a factory correct restoration.  There was one 29 Plymouth at Hershey last year and I just didn’t have the time to find it.  Mostly looking for parts and I only had an afternoon.  This October I plan to spend at least two full days walking the fields.

I would love to see what it looks like under your rear seat.  If you ever have the camera out I would appreciate a photo.

Tks, Chet…

882
General Discussion / Re: u model brakes binding
« on: May 19, 2008, 07:22:11 PM »
There are a number of things that can keep your brake pressure from bleeding off. 

You can have some type of obstruction in your brake lines.  If all four wheels are locking then the obstruction may be from the tee in the middle of the car back to the Master Cylinder.

Also there is a tiny drain hole in the master cylinder that is there to allow pressure to equalize on both sides of the drive piston. 

See diagram item 9



Master cylinder piston return spring stuck not allowing the valve to open and bleed off the pressure.  Remote but possible  See item 20 above.

Have you done any work to the brake system lately?  If so that might be a good place to start.  If not then maybe dirt and sludge have accumulated in the lines.  Might be a good time to blow them out and clean the whole system.

For what it's worth my 2 cents,  Chet…

883
General Discussion / Gary... Read this post !!!
« on: May 19, 2008, 09:46:30 AM »
Gary,

I call Tom Hannaford at the Antique Auto Parts Cellar to arrange to have my front motor mount re-vulcanized.   We talked a little and he told me that he carries everything mechanical to keep the 28-30 Plymouth rolling including Kingpin sets.

I thought you might be interested:

Antique Auto Parts Cellar
PO Box 3 (6 Chauncy Street)
Weymouth , MA 02190
Telephone: 1-781-335-1579
Fax: 1-781-335-1925
email: Thecellar@then-now.com
http://www.then-now.com/

Chet…

884
General Discussion / Anyone have any experience with..
« on: May 19, 2008, 06:06:37 AM »
Anyone have any tips or personal experience with changing the return spring on the 29-U starter motor.   

Chet...

885
General Discussion / Re: Oil Pressure
« on: May 14, 2008, 10:43:40 PM »
I was just thinking about the info. Does anyone have a diagram
of the oiling system they could send us?  Thanks

This is the best I can do.  The attached file is a cut view of the Modal U engine.

Chet...

Open the PDF file below the line.

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