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Distributor Insulating Strip

Started by racertb, April 27, 2014, 10:48:10 AM

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racertb

Good morning:

Can anyone tell me what size the distributor insulating strip should be?  I'm talking about the piece that separates the points from the inside distributor wall housing.  Also, what kind of material is it made of?

The only piece I have in my distributor is square shaped and is only at the area where the side coil terminal wire is.  I am thinking there should be a longer piece that goes between the points curved arm and casing.  I thought I recently saw in this forum a top view of a distributor with a longer piece.  Maybe it was the post from Steve and a wiring question.

Regardless, can anyone answer my questions?  Thanks...

frankp

It is 1 1/2  x  7/16 inches.  Not clear on material.  It is black, flexible to a point; maybe a thin fiber, but it has no fiber strands.  About the thickness of 4 sheets of cheap copier paper.

frank p

racertb

Thanks Frank, this is a big help.

Still working on the car.  Found TDC, test light works when supposed to with points opening, but car still not starting.  I keep fooling with the distributor.  The last time I tried, she acted like she wanted to start.  I think I may have to trial and error it with the distributor, otherwise, start all over again.

At this point, I think electrical is all ok and just timing way off.  Charging battery now so I can try again tomorrow.

imoore

Don't forget you need to point the rotor button to no1 cylinder. If not it could be firing at any of the cylinders.
1928 Q tourer (Holden bodied)
Several vintage stationary engine

racertb

Ian, I had the #1 piston up on the compression stroke and had the rotor at the #1 plug wire in the cap ready to fire.  I did, however, remove the distributor and reposition to do this.  Would that have made a difference or does it matter as long as #1 plug was in position to fire and everything was in the correct firing order?

I was so sure I had everything right and ready to go.

Old Man

#5
It's called 'fish paper'. Have no idea why. It was, and still is, very common in the starter motor/generator rebuild business. It's the same stuff used to insulate field windings in motors and generators from the casing. If you can find a rebuild shop in your area they should be able to sell you some if not give you a small piece. 
(I phoned around after posting and found out it's now a 'mylar impregnated paper' and is still used in the rebuilding of motors and generators. And it's still the original blue/gray. The guys didn't recognize the name 'fish paper'. That's what you get for being 70 years old. They will sell it over the counter. They also have some fibreglas cloth for wrapping the windings in and dipping them in epoxy. All stuff that's much more modern than me.)

frankp

If the "fish paper" isn't available.  How about using a piece of plastic that seems to encapsulate everything?

Anyway, you have to be getting very close, if all the components and wiring are ok. 
frank p

racertb

Thanks Old Man and Frank (and Ian too!)...

I believe I'm close and the distributor is not in the right location.  As mentioned above, I went through the static timing steps (even watched a couple videos on You Tube) and got everything lined up the way I'm understanding it.  I was quite sure the car would fire off yesterday, but it made that grinding kind of noise every couple of revolutions.  From the other post, a couple folks thought that meant the timing was way too advanced.  I played with the distributor somewhat in different positions and she almost fired off.  Too bad the battery was about dead at that point.

Does it matter that I pulled the distributor out when I made sure the rotor was pointing at the #1 plug wire/terminal on the cap?  I don't think it would as long as the rest of the firing order was correct and the rotor was lined up correctly.

Please let me know if this could be part of the problem, thanks.

frankp

Removing distributor to correctly align is the way to do it.  If you removed the plug wires from the cap, it wouldn't hurt to double check they are in the correct order.
frank p

racertb

I'll double check the wires/order although they were not removed...you never know.  :)

Old Man

I not sure this will help much but here goes. I have a flat head from 1935 that came to me with the distributor in such a position that I couldn't rotate it far enough to get 'time'. It ran into the side of the block just about the point where I would get the correct timing. So I took out the distributor,shaft and all, and turned it back 1/2 revolution or 'key slot'. Then I set the wires up for the correct sequence,but at their correct point in the 'circle', and started to time the engine again. The timing point this time occured about 3" before I ran out of space and before the distributor hit the block. In my case I know the engine was swapped out for a later block and  the guy got the distributor shaft setting wrong. The point I would like to make is, you can set the distributor any place you want in it's rotation as long as the spark plugs wires are in the right sequence and number 1 is being fired first. The engine doesn't know or care how the spark is being developed as long as it occurs in the right spot and in the right sequence. I hope that makes sense. In other words there are 4 or 6 or 8 points,depending on cylinder count, on the rotation of the distributor where you can start the timing sequence. It only matters that number 1 piston is in the right spot,TDC, so you can put the distributor any place you want in it's rotation as long as the spark plug wires are in the right sequence. After that you can then tweak the distributor for timing BTDC or ATDC whatever the engine specs call for.     

frankp

Excellent guidance Old Man.  Mine is set up with the grease port/screw cap towards the fan which places the condenser facing the fender for easy accessibility.
frank p

racertb

Thanks Old Man.  It makes perfect sense and that's the way I was thinking about it.  I just wanted to hear someone like you or the other helpful folks on here verify it.  The whole process is so simple when you think about it, I'm just at the point where I'm sure I'm close, I just have to recheck everything and dial it in.

One other thing though with the distributor.  When I had the test light on it to watch the light go on and off as the points were opening and closing, I had to keep my finger on the rotor (pushing against it toward the left) as I was moving/rotating the distributor.  Otherwise when turning the distributor, everything would turn, so the test light wouldn't light up. This to me seemed odd, but I assumed it was OK. The distributor does turn fine when the engine turns over.

racertb

Still trying to get her going...she acts like she wants to start, hopefully almost there.  I've had to start over with finding TDC and lining up the rotor to the number one plug wire on the cap.  Still off and now just rotating the distributor into different positions hoping she'll kick off.  Last night got real close until battery died...charging up and will try again tonight.

I've followed every step and suggestion and it's definitely not that simple, at least not on this car.

ski

Was wondering how it got its name.................

Quote
fishpaper An insulating paper, often fiber- or oilcloth-like, used in the construction of transformers and coils. [Historical Note: Alvin G. Sydor writes: "In 1729 Stephen Gray made the discovery of the conducting and non-conducting power of different substances. Gray found that by using woven silk served as an excellent insulator. Some years later it was found that the paper industry could provide what was equivalent to woven silk. Later it was discovered that if the paper was saturated with fish oil its ability as an insulator was much improved particularly when used in harsh environments and high voltages."]